Better Call Saul - Season Four Discussion & Digestion

You’re forgetting “a person like Chuck” is also attending because he was convinced to attend by someone who is not only his brother but a candidate Chuck himself presented to the Bar.

Your take also rested on the assertion that it was a “tacked on” sole appearance of Chuck. It was not.

 

Possibly, but it could likely have been written before Jimmy passing the Bar.

 

What person in the show is like Chuck? I just don't buy it. The scene seems out of character for Chuck and driven by the vocal performance.

This is the 3rd or 4th time you've taken issue with what I said: "tacked onto the end of an entire season without Chuck." The point is that Chuck had died at the end of the previous season. Yes, we get a couple nonlinear vignettes with Chuck from years earlier, which is just a gimmick that should have and could have been presented earlier, but the fact remains that Chuck was dead the entire season. No need to take issue with the point.

 

There is when it’s, like, half your faulty premise.

Because you keep ignoring everything that doesn’t conform to your original criticism.

 

That's how I saw the letter too. Right from the opening line about their mother, "the day she brought you home is the happiest I ever saw her," or words to that effect - Chuck is laying it all out, either purposely or as Freudian slip, like this: I'll never forgive you for stealing my mother's love from me. The whole letter, it seemed to me, was one long passive aggressive jibe.

I thought at the time that that was why Kim was crying, because she saw that, even in death, Chuck was still belittling Jimmy with that letter. I'm not sure about that now though. I'm pretty sure that's how Jimmy saw it, although he never said as much. But when he begins reading it at his hearing and then stops after the line about their mother, I'm sure that's when he clocks what the letter is all about and changes tack.

 

I agree entirely.

I think this is the key to Jimmie's transformation. He has tried to do the right thing. He has taken care of his sick brother. He has attained a law degree and passed the bar exam. And yet, no matter how hard he tries, his own brother, from whom he seeks approval, dismisses him as Slippin' Jimmy and a chimp with a machine gun.

He gets nowhere doing the right thing but, at the same time, he is successful and fulfilled as a con man and a criminal lawyer, with emphasis on the word "criminal."

Triggered by Chuck's death, the final straw, he breaks and becomes Saul.

 

This gets pointed out a lot, but it seems to be like he had about the sweetest gig possible at Davis and Main. No, it didn't suit him, but you can't say he wasn't given an incredible opportunity.

 

Just finished this season on a rewatch , haven't seen the show since it first aired. Doing a refresher before it all wraps up next year.
I was pleasantly surprised by 1-3 as I didn't think I would want to sit thru most of it again . At times I found it draggy and certain plot points or characters being too delved in to.
I think with all the ads and week to week viewing it wasn't best way to watch a show like this.
The things I took issue with like prolonged appearances of Pryce and Chuck's condition and some of Mike's background were much better watching on DVD at my own pace.
I still take issue with too much Mesa Verde and Kim flip flopping on work and Jimmy, think we could of seen a lot less of his jobs before he was reinstated as an attorney. But worst part of season 4 is still the whole meth lab construction. It seems they got caught up in what the crew did to create that space and the camera shots , it was mostly boring and we already saw Mike didn't want to kill the undeserving so to speak, so why so much time on Werner?
Haven't read thru this thread but curious how anyone felt about this or does now?

 

I decided to go ahead with episode 2. (I was, and presumably still am, in a better frame of mind, so I'll likely continue.) Tough to watch the leg-breaking scene. I had forgotten about the All That Jazz sequence. Very entertaining. One thing that stood out was the scene where Jimmy appears to be having drinks with a hooker. I didn't quite understand what was going on with Kim and Jimmy when I first watched it, and perhaps this scene added to my confusion.

 

That woman did look like a hooker but I think it may have just been a date?
Jimmy and Kim were friends in the beginnng with implication that they probably were involved before.
Leg breaking scene was horrible , as was Tuco. Glad you decided to watch more, think you will enjoy 1-3 too.
But if you make it to 4, let me know your thoughts.

 

Oh meant to add with what I considered time wasted in 4, why didn't they go a little bit in to Kim's past to tell us why she is so drawn to Jimmy and his scams.

 

I think Kim's character is under-developed. Maybe that's intentional. There was a scene in a recent season where, as a child, Kim's (drunk?) mother failed to pick her up on time and she walked home (carrying a large musical instrument, as I recall). If anything, that tends to suggest Kim should not be tolerant of someone like Jimmy.

 

I totally agree that the entire meth lab construction exercise is the ultimate go-nowhere, shaggy dog, borrowed interest story -- especially since we all know what ends up happening to the meth lab in BB. If we didn't need to know the details of the construction in BB, why in the world do we need to know about it in BCS? We're already aware of everything it's used for as well as its destruction, which is the real story. The construction is the real nonstory. In fact the tedium of that was what inspired all my prequelitis rants about the show having such greater potential if it wasn't tied to BB.

The Werner story is supposed to show how the cartel is able to identify Mike and Gus as being involved in some sort of drug manufacturing aspirations. When Werner escapes, it sets of the clues Lalo needs to understand Gus is building something big. To my thinking it isn't meant to show how the relation between Gus and the cartel evolved so much as it shows how Mike is forced to come full circle in his commitment to not use lethal force. Gus pushes Mike to kill Werner and that's quite annoying, too. Mike yo-yos between having no problem with deadly force to avoiding deadly force at all costs, back to having no problem with it throughout BCS and BB. So again, a super long story that doesn't advance any character development or move the bar at all. Werner was a nice guy, but not interesting, not relevant, not necessary and typical of the corners that Gilligan/Gould paint themselves into with all this borrowed interest BB prequel stuff. Shaggy dog story within shaggy dog story.

I don't think it needs further development that a girl who pushes herself to be straight-laced her whole life develops a (perhaps fatal?) attraction for someone who is fast and loose with the law and a bit of a bad seed. That's Jimmy, for sure. Also, it rings true for family dynamics. Those of us who grew up with parents treating us a certain way find we go out into the world and end up with someone who may not be the best for us just because it may feel more comfortable, "like family". Logically, it's true that Kim should have little tolerance for Jimmy with a mother like that. But sadly or perhaps tragically, depending on how Kim's arc ends, the psychology of it all is more in support of Kim's attraction to Jimmy.

 

That's right , I forgot about that scene.
I don't think we need a lot of her background but just an idea as to why this attorney who worked her way up doesn't want the job now and her attachment to Jimmy.

 

I meant in post above the scene of young Kim with alcoholic mother. (Sorry though I posted it earlier)
I think in a show that gets caught up in details sometimes too much they could of at least informed of us somewhat on why Kim does what she does. That being said watching 4 for first time I grew to dislike her after she kept moving up in her career and became increasingly bored, similar scenes kept being shown of her distaste for the whole thing.
A poster had mentioned about lack of chemistry between her and Jimmy and I think the approach was they knew each other a long while as friends and there relationship is more day to day to realistic rather than some passionate affair. Maybe that's why we see them brushing their teeth so often in the mirror ?
As for the meth lab and Werner if it was more about the cartel discovering Gus' plan the young woyldnt need to get personal with a character like Werner.
A lot of it had to do with Mike and him crossing over so to speak but once he agreed to get involved with these people he did that anyway. Regardless it was not compelling overall .
More to say but ends up being 5 territory..

 

Oh, wanted to add I absolutely hated the bowling bowl sequence , that was a heinous thing for Jimmy to do to Howard.

 

Yes, it was extreme for Jimmy to trash Howard's car like that, but the way Howard got to be Chuck's yes man for years, agreeing to bar Jimmy from practicing law at HHM when Jimmy had earned that job fair and square, combined with Jimmy unable to really grieve about his brother due to all the circumstances surrounding his death while watching Hamlin grieve just pushed Jimmy over the edge.

Kim, like Jimmy, is drawn to the clients who normally fall through the cracks and really need help. I think it was season 4 when they showed Jimmy trying to sponsor a mediocre student through Chuck's scholarship around the same time they showed Kim wanting to represent the poor old man refusing to evacuate his home. (I could be getting seasons 4/5 mixed up.) But it's like school teachers who are bored teaching spoiled brats in upscale communities and feel a calling to make a difference teaching at-risk kids in poor neighborhoods, even though the wealthier districts can be a cushier job.

It's just quirky. Gilligan will go for quirky over romantic every time. Even when he shows Sky jerking Walt under the covers in that very first episode of BB while she's auctioning her stuff online--about as awkward an unromantic as a bedroom "endeavor" can possibly get.

Discussing season 5 is fair game--it's all part of the story. I can't remember what was season 4 vs 5 anymore and don't have access to watch them now. Mike had long ago crossed over on the other side of the country when he agreed to take drug money. All the character dev with Mike being torn between doing what's right and wrong was rather superfluous because the bottom line is he does what needs to be done using the least amount of effort and violence to be effective. That's basically his code. If he can meet his ends without resorting to killing anyone he does it. But if he has to deadly force, he'll do that too. We've known this about him throughout BB and BCS, so like I said the Werner story didn't move the bar at all. They just took time to develop unnecessary backstory about the lab and to develop a tertiary character for no reason whatsoever. Exactly what you say: not compelling.

 

Howard did go along with Chuck but given that he was the senior partner and treated like a god there that was to be expected.
It was never right the way Chuck treated his brother but everything we knew of him, and would come to know it's highly doubtful he would of been a fit at the firm, anyway. He was just turned off by that sort of corporate environment and wanted freedom to do his own thing, even putting aside his criminal bent.
Maybe Kim is somewhat of the same way , after years of flying right, she's bored by it all and wants to stick it to the man as they say. I get that she decided she wanted to help people but after spending so much time building up Mesa Verde and what Jimmy did for her to get it back, it was annoying that in such a short time she was over it.
Then instead of being honest and she showed her increasing boredom and schemed against them.
I don't blame Gilligan for writing the couple way he does especially if they have been together long term like the Whites. We know how much Jimmy and Kim care for one another as they have put themselves out to the ninth degree for the other time and time again, and that's probably what matters most.
I think though when they started to show her misgivings about Jimmy, they should of either had her make a decision or let it rest for a while, even if that's how real relationships can go,people don't always leave when they start to be unhappy.
Season 5 more action comes in, Lalo figures in a lot more, Mesa Verde gets played, you see Jimmy develop his Saul client base.. I'll just keep it on that thread .

 

How did we get back to the season four thread?

There’s a season six thread now.

 

I messed up with the search. My bad.

 

Actually, I'm surprised this old thread is still open. For any others who happen by, for the discussion of BETTER CALL SAUL - SEASON 6 (the final season), go to:

Better Call Saul - Season Six Discussion

See you there. S'all good, man!

 

uh, this is way more serious than what was publicly shared at the time. you perform cpr and administer an AED on a dead person.

 

Can we take this to the season six discussion so we don't have two threads on current BCS matters running at once? I'll try to see if I can effectively move it there.

 

Better Call Saul - Season Six Discussion