Black Sabbath Deluxe Editions out 6/29/09

The mastering style is similar like on the Paranoid DE. I compared the DE against the Castle and the new remaster sounds so much better... not bright and not compressed like the 96 remaster, but smooth and detailed with a lot of dynamics. I don't have the 86 Castle remaster, but I doubt it's better than the DE.

 

Gotta get this, MOR is my fave Sabbath! Thanks for the comments.

 

I received them today, courtesy of the finest, most beautiful postgirl I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with... Cute, charming and with a pair of light blue eyes that had me hypnotized... I chatted with her for a bit and fell irreparably in love... I'm gonna start ordering stuff every day now!

Anyway, I went for the self titled album first, a record I've been very fond of ever since I first heard it, decades ago...
Lovely packaging! The cover shot for this album is one of my all time favourites, I absolutely love it, so I was really pleased to see a couple more pictures of the site on the inside... The pictures were taken in 2005, according to the credits... Beautiful stuff...

I've only heard the bonus disc for s/t, and after the high of dwelling in those pics for a while, I was brought down and disappointed in terms of content... I can't/won't comment on the sound because I heard it on the computer, but the people who thought the bonus outtakes disc on Paranoid was touch-and-go might be even more underwhelmed by this one... some of these tracks are not outtakes, or even underdubs like most of Paranoid's bonus disc...

- Wicked World (B-side)
Fine, totally justified bonus track, no problem

- Black Sabbath (outtake)
Yes, and very cool!

- Black Sabbath (instrumental)
Album version, sans rain & thunder or vocals; I dig it, along with the opening solitary bell, but others might find it boring

- The Wizard / Behind The Wall Of Sleep (outtakes)
They're the album versions, preceded by a few seconds of studio chat; I think calling them outtakes is misleading

- N.I.B. (instrumental)
No, it's not! Album version again

- Evil Woman (alternate version)
Alternate mix, more like, because it's the album take, but with horns this time

- Sleeping Village (intro)
What? Isn't this as per the album again?

- Warning (part 1)
Album take, only cut in the middle of Iommi's long solo section, which lacks the slapback echo. There was one point earlier in the track where I detected a different guitar solo, though it just may be that it's missing another solo overdub.

I'll probably love it later when I listen on my regular system if it happens to be mastered like Paranoid's bonus disc (I love that one), but I honestly think it's cheeky to stick a few seconds of studio banter to the regular album track and sell it as an outtake...

I find Wicked World, Black Sabbath (the first version) and Evil Woman are totally justified in their inclusion... Personally, I also enjoy the instrumental Black Sabbath and the ever so slightly different Warning... but they're having a laugh with the rest...

Still, I'm happy I got it (10 quid is fair) and I'm looking forward to listening to the album proper and the MOR set...

 

I guess you missed "Planet Caravan," which featured a dry vocal take from Ozzy singing in a different style than I've ever heard before. Way cool.

And I guess you missed "Paranoid," which featured an early version with Ozzy still working out the melodic content and singing quite differently from what ended up on the final version.

 

I listened to the 2 new ones today.

The Black Sabbath bonus tracks do seem a little weaker than Paranoid and MoR, to me. Wicked World is required , but for the rest, Evil Woman is ... interesting, but the others just aren't that different from the regular versions. I do like the different begining to the outtake of the song Black Sabbath though.

Also, I hear a glitch on the Wizard studio outtake right at 3:47. ?? Like a dropout.

For MoR, the outtakes are more different than the originals. Some very nice stuff here. The piano and slide guitar on Lord of this World is really cool.

The masterings seem to be like Paranoid. It is on my list of things to do, to do the Audacity/Excel/EQ comparisons between these and the '86 Castles. Plus I want to see how the mastering of this MoR relates to the PE flag issue that came up on the '86 Castle.

 

Got my copies of S/T and MoR from Amazon UK this morning but haven't found the time to listen yet. Hopefully this weekend!

 

The Audacity/Excel/EQ thing for Warning from Black Sabbath. (See Roland's thread for more detail. Basically a comparison of EQ between masterings.) The new DE vs the '86 Castle, and the Creative Sounds, 6006-2, both correctly deemphasized.



The DE is kind of bright, don't you think? Dynamics are fine, but ...

I'll admit, the album itself doesn't sound that bright. But when I listened to Wicked World on the 2nd disc, then it hit me how much the treble was boosted.

So for this one, it's still the '86 Castle and the CS disc for me. I like the booklet though.

 

I have been a huge Sabs fan ever since I first bought Paranoid (on pre-recorded cassette!) as a slightly sullen, long maned, angst ridden teen and as such, have eagerly read each and every Black Sabbath interview that I could find.

In more than one interview, Tony has made it very clear that there has never been much in the way of unreleased studio outtakes or even embryonic working ideas in progress still on tape from the Warner years album sessions that he would feel comfortable releasing.

I'm thinking that these releases (so far) pretty much bear that out.

But because it's The Sabs, and because this is stuff that I have not heard, not to mention possibly better sounding stuff than the horrific Black Box (bought that too), I'll still buy these.

Besides, the boys deserve a half way decent retirement just like the rest of us ...

 

Thanks Javier, very interesting.
My copies haven't arrived yet, so I have to wait ...

I'm fairly interested in the Bonus tracks, but a two disc set for 10 pounds sure ain't bad - Beatles fans should be so lucky with their upcoming remasters - how much are they gonna cost ? And no bonus tracks at all ......

 

listening to MOR now. the thing that strikes me is that it sounds much less bright than the 1996 version, so that on first listen it sounds distinctly murky. i'm sure that's just cos its different to what im used to. that said, lord of this world is on right now its bloomin' heavy sounding!

agree about the bonus tracks on the self titled edition - i cant see myself ever listening to that disc again.

 

Paranoid, Audacity/Excel/EQ:



The new DE is smiley faced vs the '86 Castle. Again, the dynamics aren't bad between the two. But ...

 

I got them and did a quick shoot-out of the Debut album between my original vintage Spiral label Vertigo Vinyl, the CLACD Castle CD and the new one - they all (naturally) sound a bit different and the vinyl has still the edge for sheer "presence", followed by the CLACD, but the new deluxe CD is really, really good I have to say. It packs a punch and is still easy on the ears, you can turn it up no problem.

And I also listened to my WB US CD - but not for long - what a dog :thumbsdn: Talk about ear ache .....

Bring on Vol 4, I say

 

Thanks for that review. Is the Black Sabbath (title cut) outtake a completely different performance or just an alternate mix of the performance on the LP? Does Warning (part 1) have sections edited out of the LP version or is it an alternate mix with an alternate guitar solo?

 

Black Sabbath outtake is a completely different performance, it even has one or 2 lines of different lyrics...

Warning part 1 doesn't feature any sections that weren't on the album... It sounds to me like it just lacks one guitar solo overdub, but I can't be 100% sure without an a/b comparison, I'm going by memory... Other than that guitar bit (and the aforementioned lack of slapback echo during the long middle solo), I believe the rest of the instruments remain just the way they ended on the album...

Any additions/corrections welcome!

 

Been listening to mine this morning and I'm very pleased. The extras are fun and the liner notes are simply fantastic.

I think the bonus stuff on Master Of Reality is the more interesting between the two. "Weevil Woman '71" is an out and out stomper! A sort of alternate stab at "Evil Woman," which they apparently never wanted to record in 1969.

I will always love Master of Reality, but this edition only serves to remind me of how dissapointing I always thought the production on Ward's drums was. Why you would ever you take a drummer with that kind of slam and sizzle and go for that boxy, compressed and dry production is truly baffling. One thing I always loved about Vol. 4 was that live, powerful drum sound.

The job Universal is doing on these is sensational. A sonic purist may find better versions of the albums proper, but these are so well done and the bonus stuff so essential for any committed fan that I am really looking forward to more.

 

The next three are the ones I am really looking forward to!

 

I agree, I've really enjoyed the first three of these reissues, and can't wait for the next ones. Given that the next 3 were primarily 'written in the studio' over the course of 6 or 8 months each, I'm really hopeful that these will yield even more bonus material than these first 3. I'm also hoping against hope that they manage to dig up the (hopefully completed) never released quadraphonic mix of Sabotage. Never mind the fact that the band did a lot of live recording in anticipation of a live album that never materialized between 73 and 75 - some of this ended up on Live At Last, but it would be great to hear more of it. I think ages ago I did a long post of what I knew to be available for Sabbath reissues, maybe we could ressurect that thread?

 

I've been real happy with my import vinyl pressings, but this thread is making me real curious about the new deluxe editions...

 

Thanks for that. A a completely different performance of the title track might be enough to justify picking this up. Is it from an earlier session or the album sessions proper?

I figured the disc 2 Warning was this. I also read that the liner notes mention an 18 minute version?

Anyone know what this is?

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We can let you know as soon as we have the tracklisting, artwork & a release date, as well as the many different ways you'll be able to buy it.

 

Has there been an official announcement about the next batch of remasters?

 

sort of. bill ward (i think) just mentions that live versions used to have an 18 minute guitar solo and so the album version is a trimmed version of that.

 

Last one, After Forever from MoR. The '86 Castle vs the new DE:



This one gets necessarily complicated. In Roland's thread, it's been proposed that the '86 Castle for MoR was flagged incorrectly on the CD for being preemphasized.

The CD *is* flagged as having been preemphasized, but comparisons with some other sources tends to indicate that the flag should not have been there. What that means is that if you play back the CD as-is, properly deemphasized, it will sound too dark and muffled. Basically, the highs have been deemphasized unnecessarily. If you simply rip it, and then burn a new copy, stripping the PE flag off of it, that's what the theory says is the correct way it should have been mastered.

So for the graph, I took the "not deemphasized" version as the baseline. What is thought of as correct in Roland's thread. So the deemphasized version ends up -10 dB at 20 kHz for EQ as compared to the non-deemphasized version. (Man, I hope some of you can follow this ! )

So looking at it this way, the DE doesn't look too bad in terms of brightness alone.

But personally, I think the not deemphasized version is too bright. Whether it's supposed to be that way or not, I am just too used to hearing it as more laid back. (I am mostly familiar with the US WB, where someone said it was in between the '86 Castle as-is and not deemphasized.)

So here is the as-is Castle as the baseline:



The not deemphasized version is 10 dB up at 20 kHz, and you can see what the DE looks like this way too.

Personally, I like something in between. My favorite is still the '86 Castle 1/2 deemphasized. I won't graph it here, all you have to do is to average the DE between the above 2 graphs, but the DE compared to the 1/2 deemphsized '86 Castle falls within a 3.5 +/- 2.5 dB window.

Long story short, the MoR DE isn't too bad IMO. Similarly to BS and Paranoid, the DE preserves *most* of the dynamics (but not all, in all 3 cases) compared to the '86 Castles.

 

I certainly don't think the '86 MOR played back normally on a cd player is at all too dark.

My '86 Castle Made in France by MPO sounds fantastic.

 

I love these sets, I don't have any Sabbath outtakes so it's all new to me and I'm really enjoying them. Another bonus is I managed to get both of these for £6 each, they must have made an error in the store.

 

Hi all I'm on the fence here with these editions, should I go vinyl or CD, I haven't heard much on the vinyl editions can someone please elaborate, do the vinyls sound as good and maybe have the original vertigo swirl, not too worried about not having the quad mix on paranoid.