Bob Dylan - 50th anniversary collection - 1964

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by oh1, Dec 2, 2014.

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  1. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    Glen Dundas (Tangled Up In Tapes) has it as 'Early May 1964'.
     
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  2. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    If that date is correct, the "May 1964" date for the "home tape" can stand, and the location just needs to be changed. (Having played Monterey on May 1st, New York would be a much more logical destination en route to England than Sarasota!)

    This tape is well beyond my expectations - they both sound focused - they're not just messing around searching for something to play. The two performances that stand out for me are "Money Honey" and "More and More". Dylan takes on a whole other voice for "Money Honey" - a bit of Elvis, but also a bit of his "blues voice". "More and More", which Dylan liked enough to return to it years later during the early years of the Never-Ending Tour, is a really heartfelt performance. This is good stuff - not just "listen to once and file away" historical stuff.
     
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  3. Thelonious_Cube

    Thelonious_Cube Epistrophe of Light

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    According to my understanding of US copyright law (and perhaps you're discussing EU law?) this is incorrect.

    I'm unsure about the legality of the taping itself, but I'm quite positive that copyright violation is not tied to profit or monetary value of any kind. Simply copying and distributing is illegal if the content is copyright is not under your control.

    I'd be surprised if EU law was different on that point, since someone with deep pockets could, in theory, distribute someone else's content for free in order to drive their business under.
     
  4. Thelonious_Cube

    Thelonious_Cube Epistrophe of Light

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Has the von Schmidt tape circulated before? I hadn't heard of it before this
     
  5. Thelonious_Cube

    Thelonious_Cube Epistrophe of Light

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    It's not that you and I have a right to profit so much as that Sony no longer has the exclusive right to copy the tape. They do, however, have an advantage in that they own the tape that you and I would like to copy.

    If I owned an unpublished manuscript by Melville or Mark Twain, the contents would be PD (so I or anyone could publish it legally). however, i am not under any legal obligation to do so, nor to show it to anyone or allow them to copy it. You might argue that I have a moral obligation to do so, but currently I don't think there's any legal precedent for forcing my hand.
     
  6. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    It definitely was not in circulation when I was a "full time" tape collector, and I'm guessing it never has been. It clearly circulated enough for Dylan's people to have a copy, and for them not to trust that someone else didn't have a copy that could be the source of a PD release. We are the lucky beneficiaries of this scenario.
     
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  7. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Perhaps the Von Schmidt tape was attributed to his home in Sarasota because it has two Florida references - the first being "Florida Woman".

    The second, improvised during "Dr. Strangelove Blues", elicits great laughter from Dylan:

    "Down Southern Florida, Strangest thing is going on,
    Well the old grandmothers are hanging up the Beatle pictures,
    and the little kids are digging King Kong."

    If someone got the tape with no information about the location, Sarasota would make for a logical (if incorrect) guess.

    For what it's worth, "Dr. Strangelove" was released on January 29, 1964 - the same weekend that "I Want To Hold Your Hand" (also referenced) hit #1.
     
  8. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    Someone at ExpectingRain posted an article from a Dylan fanzine in the early 90's dissecting the tape's contents. Apparently a dub ended up in the hands of a Russian collector in early 90s, but I'm not sure it ever circulated beyond that.
     
  9. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Yes, someone posted that article here as well. In this very thread I believe. Well worth the read.
     
  10. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    Whoops! Hard time keeping track of what's been on this thread and all the others.
     
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  11. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    That's such an understatement -- I'm exhausted.
     
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  12. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    why vinyl?
     
  13. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    To make the bootleggers jump through an extra hoop before they post it all somewhere.
     
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  14. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    thanks! that's what first came to mind...like that will stop them!
     
  15. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Plus it means that any circulating copies will be needledrops, meaning Sony can keep hold of the 'pure' digital masters for any later re-release on CD, if they wish.
     
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  16. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Just listening to this stuff now. Unless there was a bootleg out there I didn't know exist, they gave us more than they "had to".

    You have the incorrect albums for "Mr. Tambourine Man" ("No Direction Home") and "My Back Pages" ("Another Side of Bob Dylan").

    The guitar-based "Black Crow Blues" takes are amazing to hear (despite being failures)!
     
  17. John Rhett Thomas

    John Rhett Thomas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Macon, GA, USA
    There were Russian collectors in the early '90s? That wound up with otherwise uncirculating gems like this?
     
  18. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    for some it's a way of life!
    wonder if those digital masters were included in the recent hack?
     
  19. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Also, there is another I Shall Be Free No. 10 insert piece, bootlegged, but not on this collection. Bob laughs through it.
     
  20. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm thinking about booking a flight to Europe so that I can enjoy the '64 recordings "legally." Seriously, apart from the studio outtakes/extras and (of course) the Von Schmidt recordings, my interest in this particular set is lukewarm at best.
     
  21. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I will say that Festival Hall is a beautiful recording, and has a number of interesting performances. In particular, "Restless Farewell". The reason Festival Hall doesn't compare to "All Hallow's Eve" (Philharmonic Hall 10-31-64) is that on Festival Hall the applause at the end of a song is cross-faded into the next song, so whatever Dylan speech, tuning, song introduction and fun was there has been sacrificed. Makes the concert fly by, but doesn't allow it to have much character. I assume these fades weren't done specifically for this box. I would have preferred the raw tape (I wasn't consulted :)).

    We've got brand new material on upwards of 40% of this set, which is a huge leap over the '63 set. And for what it's worth (nothing?), the Philly '64 audience tape doesn't seem to have the slightest bit of hiss, so at least it is taken from a copy very close to the audience master.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  22. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    You think they made them in prep for a possible album at the time? If so, that would be plausible.
     
  23. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I'm not sure, but since I can't see them making that effort for this box, it makes sense. Apparently these tracks were under consideration for "Bob Dylan In Concert" - though I wouldn't think you'd do crossfades like that until you decided what was making the cut for the album.
     
  24. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Eternal Circle was apparently under consideration, according to Searching For A Gem.

    Lots of info: http://www.searchingforagem.com/1960s/1964InConcert.htm

    "...R-0675 Eternal Circle - previously unknown live recording, most likely to be from the Royal Festival Hall, London, 17 May 1964 (stereo version). Dedicated by Bob to “...anybody who plays an instrument. It’s not so easy.”. The opening line is “I strummed” instead of “I sang”..."
     
  25. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Yes, he's "strumming" on the box, but unfortunately he's not dedicating the song to anyone - it edits in just as Bob's giggle is dying down. The previously circulating is not extracted from this particular edit of the concert.
     
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