Bob Dylan Live 1965 (USA tour)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by BlueJay, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. RandPink

    RandPink Active Member

    Location:
    XX
    my take on the "No, same show, new drummer, can't take a chance" comment from Dylan was that it seemed he was just saying that the drummer (Gregg) was still VERY new (only having played the two Berkeley shows). it didn't seem like Bob meant it was a brand new drummer just for the SF show. just my two cents. difficult to actually confirm anything of course.

    also, Bobby Gregg seems to flub the into to Long Distance Operator at the SF show, maybe showing he wasn't quite up to full speed yet with the band.
     
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  2. RandPink

    RandPink Active Member

    Location:
    XX
    sucks that what Dylan says to the audience pre Visions is so muffled. I may go something like this.

    Bob:

    "let me sing this song here that has not been recorded. I sang it to somebody last week...then sang it this week too, at a concert, he was at the concert, so he heard the same song again......and he's here again tonight (crowd laughs) ...so he's gonna hear the same thing (more crowd laughs).....but anyways, song is Something like a Freeze Out....or Alcatraz to the 9th Power Revisited" (big laughs/applause)

    Bob then gets unexpectedly heckled by an audience member, to which Bob likely responds with a little Chaplin eye roll dance (big laughs from audience). the heckler then yells something else and is swiftly shouted down by a woman in the audience with a strong "SHUT UP!". that ends it, haha. such a positive/attentive audience to have this little heckle blip. was probably one of the folky purists I suppose, or just a drunk guy.
     
  3. RandPink

    RandPink Active Member

    Location:
    XX
    in this stage talk Bob is maybe referring to Ginsberg having heard the same song three times in a week. ? If so i'm sure AG didn't mind. would have been nice to hear the private performance, or the supposed Berkeley live debut.
     
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  4. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Fascinating stuff in this thread. Despite all the research that has been done on Dylan, new corners of mystery keep emerging :).

    Re the 2nd drummer, could it be that Sandy Konikoff was brought in already at this stage? The consensus is that he debuted in Feb 1966, but it is a possibility. I didn't know that he had a history of working with The Hawks going back several years earlier.
    Sandy Konikoff

    On a side note: how fantastic it would have been if Bob had tried out Visions in electric guise, given that he recorded it that way on Nov 30.
     
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  5. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    It was my assumption as well that he's talking about Ginsberg.
     
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  6. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    There was also San Diego on 12-10.

    I don't know the reality (and at this point we may never know the reality), but it's very difficult to reconcile what Dylan says with the drummer having stayed the same.

    Can't take a chance with a new drummer could easily mean RELATIVELY new drummer ... drummer you already saw last week Allen. But "We've got a new drummer tonight"? That's like me buying a new car, showing it to you for 45 minutes, and then showing up next week saying "Hey, I got a new car today".

    Just my opinion, of course. I wouldn't trust ANYONE's memory 52 years after the fact, so we may never know.
     
  7. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    According to Robbie's book, Sandy K. hooked up with them during the January '66 NYC recording sessions. The Hawks had known him previously, and thought he would be a good fit musically, but SK had since become more of a "jazz cat," with black beret and turtleneck, and tried to add some "flighty" (Robbie's term) flourishes to some of the songs, which is why Dylan canned him at the end of March, just before the world tour, when Mickey Jones became available.
     
  8. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Seems a reasonable possibility. Dylan seems pretty adamant about not wanting to see Bonnie (I assume Beecher). I can't find an online source that pins her marriage date beyond just "1965", but odds are she was newly married.
     
  9. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Then there goes my theory, ASSUMING Robbie remembers correctly, some 50 years later...
     
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  10. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    After all this time, I finally realized why Long Distance Operator from the Ginsberg tapes sounded so familiar to me when I first heard it a few years ago...:doh:
     
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  11. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Looking through bobdylan.com I'd say this applies to every year up to and including 1965. They seem woefully incomplete and/or speculative on concert dates.
     
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  12. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Excellent observation!

    As an aside, I've long wondered about the "Wooo!" guy on this recording. Did he recognize it after one line as "Hero Blues"? (Spot of the first "wooo") Did he recognize it as "Long Distance Operator"? :) Was he simply wooing 'cuz Bob was back and singing anything?
     
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  13. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Good point. He also claims that they recorded a studio version of Tell Me Momma in January '66, which has never surfaced. (He was probably confusing it with the takes they did of Leopard-Skin Pillbox Hat during those sessions.)
     
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  14. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    Rumor is that the A.G. tapes are circulating as a torrent, as of a few hours ago.
     
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  15. Walking Antique

    Walking Antique Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    "Now when the rumor comes to your town
    It grows, it grows, where it started no one knows
    Some of your neighbors will invite it right in"
     
  16. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I think they left it off 'cause it's the biggest shambles of the lot. To my ears, it sounds like the band gets confused on where the downbeat is. The bass player is playing against the drums starting at a certain point. I think this problem arises from the attempted studio takes of the song earlier that month -- if you listen on The Cutting Edge, Dylan & band can't quite figure out how to end each verse and start a new one, timing-wise (I think they were over-thinking it and assuming that Dylan wanted something crazy and out-there, timing-wise. And maybe he did at first, but that got jettisoned later in the album process).

    The Butterfields probably used an acetate of one of those takes to learn the song at Newport, and they were understandably confused when that particular point never got sorted out. But I'm just guessing there. Someone's probably written about the topic.
     
  17. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    You are probably right. Haven't read Robbie's book, but doesn't he also claim they played Maggie's Farm at one gig in Europe 1966, which we know did not happen?
     
  18. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Paris, if I recall.
     
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  19. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    :righton:
     
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  20. The Absent-Minded Flaneur

    The Absent-Minded Flaneur Forum Resident

    Location:
    The EU
    This new San Francisco 11/Dec/65 Tambourine Man is right up there with the best of the '66 performances. Messy in parts, not as hypnotic as Sheffield, but not far off.
     
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  21. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm sitting in a bar right now, and they just locked the front door and shut the blinds. A guy has a big boombox on top of the the pinball machine, and he's playing what he says are the "Ginsberg Dylan tapes from '65, man!" Everyone is listening intently. I asked him where he got the tapes, and he just mumbled "Frankincense and an eagle feather, man..." Not sure what that means. I'll report back later.
     
  22. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Pretty sure I was sloppy drunk there. Didn't mean to cause any confusion, HR.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  23. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I've heard San Jose 2nd half before (mislabeled as Berkeley), but it's a revelation here. Really great sound, considering it's an audience recording. I wonder if team Dylan could actually use this source to re-master and make it even better -- even releasable? San Francisco might be a better show artistically/musically (I wouldn't know yet -- haven't given a close listen, but I trust others' assessments of the material), but San Jose is so dang listenable. Jaw-dropping stuff.
     
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  24. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    These are great.

    I also laugh when I think of Allen Ginsberg sitting quietly holding the microphone in the air for the duration of these concerts. Having (stealthily) recorded many shows myself, I relate to the steady patience it takes to be a human mic stand.
     
  25. Walking Antique

    Walking Antique Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    I recall someone way back stating that Ginsberg set up his rig right on the stage (don't know the source or the veracity). Being friends with Dylan has advantages.
     
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