Bob Dylan's Basement Tapes - where we're at currently...

There is a lot of interesting information in it, collected in one place.

 

This acetate was re-created on disc 8 of the Basement Reels boot - given the not-so-hot audio quality, if probably was taken directly from the acetate I presume.

Been kind of busy catching up with various projects lately, but hope to pick up the story again soon. Hoping we'll catch a few more interested parties at some point - surprised people aren't more into the ancillary basement tracks that have been discussed so far...

 

First of all, AWESOME thread. I'm a huge fan of Dylan and have always been interested in the Basement Tapes. I must say though that I am surprised to hear you dismiss the more recent Mixin' Up the Medicine. As you state this has received quite a bit of praise from some of the standard sources on all things Bob. Isis Magazine (a long time Dylan fanzine) gave it a favorable write-up here: http://www.bobdylanisis.com/contents/en-uk/d94_Bob_Dylan_Remastered.html. It also received excellent reviews from Bobs Boots which called it a "must have". All of these seem to believe that the music found on the release is indeed the "Safety" as given to Neil Young. I know you said you did not want to consider the release further, but could you go into more detail about why you think this latest release should be dismissed?

I also am surprised to see so many disparaging comments on sound of the 2009 reissue of the official release. Again, it got a favorable review from Isis Magazine (in the same link posted above) and when it first arrived I read many reviews on this site praising the sound. Those reviews can be found here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-the-flood-new-morning-dylan-the-dead.179033/

 

Have you heard Mixin' Up the Medicine? It's unclear from your comments whether you have, or are just going off of what reviews have said. Bootleggers can make any outrageous claim they want about their stuff, and sometimes reviewers just accept those claims without listening critically. I remember a Who "Complete Singles" bootleg years ago that claimed to have accessed the Talmy master tapes (this was before they'd been used to make the remixed stereo My Generation Deluxe Edition). Close examination revealed the tracks in question were actually just pirated off old MCA CDs. In the case of Medicine, GetRhythm has noted that this CD doesn't sonically resemble the one actual safety track we have ("I'm Not There" from the soundtrack). It features lots of digital noise reduction and high-end filtering, and some of the tracks are sped-up, but otherwise it appears to be simply derived from previously-released boots. It is a shuck, and the reviewers who are praising have apparently not noticed the emperor has no clothes.

As for the remaster of the official Basement Tapes album, I haven't heard it myself, but I know other Greg Calbi Dylan remasters have been criticized for excessive treble. I'm curious for GetRhythm to elaborate on what he doesn't like about it. I think the original 80's CD of this album is very well-mastered and probably sounds about the best this album can sound, given the processed, poorly-mixed, sometimes sonically degraded sound of the Robertson-prepared master tape.

 

Beat me to it. But that is the case with the safety tape bootleg. I think it does take one or two tracks from elsewhere than A Tree With Roots and the Genuine Basement Tapes, but they're not new, and they're processed heavily.

I don't mind the first CD Columbia release. The remaster is brighter, but I don't have too much of a problem with that either, though I just tend to listen to the bootlegs instead, so my opinion isn't that strong no those releases either way.

 

I don't know, the MFSL sounds better to me than the original official '80s CD.

 

Original CD < CD remaster << MFSL SACD

I'm not sure why anyone would want to listen to that '80s CD anymore.

 

It's well-mastered with a nice flat-sounding tonality. Based on my experience with Calbi's work, I'm skeptical he did better on the remaster, since he tends toward extra brightness. It's not that often I'm interested in listening to the official version of this material anyway.

 

That's the thing. This is a case where the bootlegs aren't a novelty or curiosity. They are the definitive statement on this material. At least for now...

 

I have heard Mixin' Up the Medicine. I actually own it. Perhaps I am one of the naive listeners who can't see the naked emperor for what he is, but I think it sounds good. Good being a relative complement...these are the Basement Tapes after all. While major props go to Garth for the magic he managed to capture, I don't know that anyone would necessarily call listening to the Basement Tapes an audiophile experience. Like most Dylan fans of a certain age, I first experienced the Basement Tapes by listening to the official release. I purchased that double album with the understanding that it was an important part of the Dylan canon (and of popular music in general). I enjoyed it very much. It was only later after exploring these legendary sessions further that I learned that there were many more songs recorded by Dylan and the Band in 1967. Most of these can be found on the larger collections such as A Tree With Roots and The Genuine Basement Tapes, but for all their value as historical documents of what Dylan and the Band were actually doing, as a listening experience I find them somewhat tedious. There are a lot of false starts, songs that break down, multiple takes, and just general bad fidelity. Remember, from what we know these were never songs (or, at the very least, not performances) that were meant to be heard by the general record buying public. That is, of course, part of their charm. Dylan and the Band were recuperating after an exhaustive and contentious world tour and just playing for the fun of it. Not everyone, even some hardcore Dylan fans, "get" the Basement Tapes. Dylan himself has repeatedly (in typical contrary fashion) played down their significance over the years. The 4 disc sets are essential to understanding the Basement Tapes, but for listening I prefer just the better takes of the Dylan originals that have come to be regarded as classics. It is my humble opinion that the best of the Basement Tapes can stand with the best of Dylan's entire catalogue...which of course can stand with (or above) the best of anybody's. Mixin' Up the Medicine presented just the very best of the Basement Tapes (with a few omissions like "Silent Weekend") with the proper stereo separation and no overdubs. It contains some of the major songs missing from the official release ("I Shall Be Released", "The Mighty Quinn", "Sign On The Cross") and "I'm Not There" to my naked ears sounds very close to the release found on the film soundtrack. For the last few years it has served as my "go-to" for Basement Tape listening.

With all that said, I actually think the original official release has been unfairly demonized. Yes, most of the criticism leveled at it is justified. Robertson did falsely overemphasize the role of the Band by including songs recorded by the group later at the expense of including more Dylan orginals (including obvious classics like "I Shall Be Released"). The Band songs included though are uniformly good to great in quality. The overdubs added later seem to be the antithesis of what the Basement Tapes were all about, but they are mostly tasteful. Calling the album a "fraud" because those compiling them (which obviously included one of the original participants in Robertson) thought the songs sounded better with some overdubbing is, in my opinion, a drastic overreaction. The Phil Spector overdubs found on Let It Be may not be to everyone's taste, and they are certainly contrary to the original premise of the Get Back sessions, but calling that album a "fraud" is likewise extreme. These releases were sanctioned by the artists and have been part of the canon for decades. It also seems to me that a preference for the extreme stereo separation as Garth originally recorded the sessions over the mono (or limited stereo) found on the official release is (as with in most stereo vs. mono cases) a matter of opinion (or perhaps listening environment). The stereo separation has a wonderful feel when listening in a room, but over headphones it can be irritating. After listening to Mixin' Up the Medicine exclusively for the last few years I recently decided to commit heresy and revisit the official release (on both the MFSL vinyl and 2009 Sony remaster). I must say I enjoyed myself immensely.

 

I agree that there's something to be said for paring down the available recordings to just the best takes of the best Dylan originals. I did that myself several years before Mixin' Up the Medicine came out, and for casual listening that's what I go to. The issue with Mixin' is that soundwise it's not the best available source for these tracks, nor is it even a new and different source as it claims. It's a digitally processed version of what was available previously. I don't like the way it sounds compared to other versions.

As to the original album... I loved the hell out of that thing when I first bought it in summer of 1987, and I listened to it constantly. I didn't know the history, and I thought it was a great album. I still do, but it's also fair to say it is a fraud. It's a fraud in the same sense that live albums which have extensive studio re-recording and overdubbing are frauds. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. There are times when I'm in the mood to hear those songs in the order I originally heard them, Band tracks and all, and that's when I pull out my 80s CDs. Most of the time though I prefer the wide stereo sound and I prefer hearing the Band stuff on the Musical History box alongside other Band stuff of the same vintage. But the original album is a great album. It could have been better though, and that's I guess the reason it gets attacked.

 

All good points. Especially regarding overdubs to live albums. I have always loved Get Yer Ya Yas Out, and while the overdubs might make it less "authentic" as a live album, it remains a great rock n' roll record. I think the same is true of the official release of the Basement Tapes. Remember how well it was received by most critics when it first came out in 1975 (when presumably most "in the know" would have been listening to bootlegs of these very songs for years). The Village Voice called it the best record of the year (high praise indeed considering this is the year of Tonight's the Night, Born To Run, and Dylan's own Blood On The Tracks) stating, "We don't have to bow our heads in shame because this is the best album of 1975. It would have been the best album of 1967, too."

One question: Has it been proven definitively that the source of the songs found on Mixin' Up the Medicine is not the mythological "Safety Tape" but simply the same sources we have heard for years just digitally processed for an artificially "cleaner" sound? I know enough never to take the claims of any bootleg release at face value, but I was not aware that the claims that these are indeed sourced from the "Safety Tape" had been definitely debunked.

 

Also, only somewhat off-topic, Happy Birthday Bob!

 

This bit puzzles me. Some of the best sounding recordings I own are old pieces of vinyl that were recorded AND MASTERED in the fifties.
Over sixty years ago. I suspect any pro will tell you that by far the most significant component in the mastering process is the guy behind the wheel. don't claim to be knowledgable on the subject myself. I'm just saying .....

 

don't want to speak for GR, but I took him to specifically mean CD mastering?

 

Wow, great thread. GetRhythm can you comment on why you don't like the 2009 reissue?

 

Maybe I missed it, but any comment on the recent MFSL double vinyl reissue?

 

Thanks for that. As I say, I'm no expert. But same thing applies. Some of the best sounding cds I own were made in the eighties. That's right,
the decade when the general level of cd mastering was just abysmal. And I don't mean just one. From that I took it, and still do, that it wasn't the
technology that was the most significant problem, but that most of the PEOPLE involved just didn't know what they were doing. That first Buddy
Holly cd that our host made, in I believe 1985, FROM THE ORIGINAL MASTER TAPES, still sounds great to me. I realize that with modern technology
Steve could get a bit more out of the tapes today than he did then. But you know what? That 1985 job STILL sounds better ( a lot) than 99% of the product
that comes out now. I've never felt the need to try and update it and I've been listening to it for thirty years now. So, while I am grateful for the comment and
think it has merit, my feeling hasn't changed at all. It seems to me that the masterer is the over-riding component.

 

He was referring to the mastering of two "boots," rather than the mastering of professional material. They are both riddled with problems that could probably be avoided now, with added knowledge and technology. I mean, the speed issues alone that are noted. So, bear that in mind.

 

I understand now. thx

 

Just a bump. Is this thread still going, and there is more tunes to cover? I stopped getting thread reminders for this one, and feared the hammer came down on it. But I did get the 5CD "Genuine Basement Tapes" set loaded into my lossless music server so I could go a-long sort of, track by track. I can read up and back track

I'm guessing this is the better set overall, bests than "Tree with Roots? From statements, GBT seems the better one, but from the song analysis TWR often gets the nod.

I think I have both sets, and can't find TWR at the moment.

 

After going back and listening to the original 80's CD and the several remasterings, I'm in complete agreement that the original CD is about as good as this LP's going to sound, given the limitations noted in czeskleba's post. As far as the Calbi-mastered 2009 version, like a lot of other Sony re-issue products, in its striving for maximum IMPACT, it sounds congested and claustrophobic, with no space or room to breathe in the music. Listening to it is fatiguing - the audio equivalent of being bludgeoned with a sledgehammer. The 2012 Mofo is a bit better, but it seems to smooth out all the rough edges too much and ends up sounding kind of bland. At any rate, as I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, if you're going to bother to remaster at all, it's kind of ridiculous to not at least update the generationally and acetate-derived source versions of several tracks with the since discovered sonically superior original tapes.

As noted earlier, Tree With Roots bills itself as a remaster of Genuine Basement Tapes that was issued about eight years earlier, though it's success in doing so was equivocal at best. If you're going to get the best current versions of everything available, I think at this point you still need to mix and match quite a bit, as is apparent from my other entries in this thread. At any rate, I'll try and pick things up with my next entry a little later tonight...

 

Just noticed I referred to Mobile Fidelity as "Mofo" instead of "Mofi" in the last post - no intent there, I swear it...lol

Okay, back to work here...

"Belshazzar" (+ false start)

"I Forgot to Remember to Forget Her"

"You Win Again"

"Still In Town"

"Waltzing With Sin" (+ false start)

"Big River" (takes 1 and 2)

"Folsom Prison Blues"

"Bells Of Rhymney"


This is what I love about these sessions, from traditional folk forays on the last reel, then all of a sudden straight back to Memphis and Sam Phillip's Sun Studios. With Richard Manuel apparently on hiatus for the day (must have been on quite a bender the previous night), the boys show some great rockabilly chops on both ballads and up-tempo numbers, with Dylan compatriot and 'mutual admiration society' member Johnny Cash especially favored (Cash's "Still In Town" is particularly affecting). The folk standard "Bells Of Rhymney" that winds up the proceedings is the outlier in this group - a sympathetic reading, but lacking the epic scope of the Byrd's majestic rendering.

All these tracks come to us via the 1991 cassettes, though Rob Fraboni apparently copied over "Folsom Prison Blues" to his reel when compiling the official LP. Soundwise, it's a pretty easy call between the Genuine Basement Tapes (GBT) and Tree With Roots (TWR) versions. The first five tracks apparently derive from the same source, with Dylan appearing far left - however, the GBT versions suffer from generally low levels and an overall hissy sound. The TWR versions sound EQ'ed to mitigate the hiss, and while it could have been done in a more balanced fashion, these will have to suffice.

For both takes of "Big River" (combined together on GBT, separated on TWR), "Folsom Prison Blues" and "Bells", TWR claims to have used an 'alternate source tape', but unfortunately it sounds to be an inferior one - clean, but very muffled and lacking any presence whatsover. Dylan also moves over to the right channel here. He stays left on the GBT versions, which while still hissy, at least still have some presence and life.

Winner - 1st five tracks: TWR

Winner - last three tracks: GBT

Next up - let the games begin...

 

I think it was in the early 90's and we were taking a drive vacation from Toronto through to Cape Cod. Somewhere in upstate New York we stopped for a break and I found an old antique store. In I went looking for old vinyl records. I didn't find any records but I did pick up a ten inch reel to reel tape. The tape is on a metal Ampex reel


in an Ampex box. There was no info other than a typed label on the spine Bob Dylan Studio 1967 - 2 Track 15ips.
I listened to the tape and it starts
with a long tone then pretty much follows the Genuine Basement Tapes Volume 1 track listing. The tape does not have all the songs on that CD but the order is the same.
No splices in the tape. The sound quality is very good and can't hear any pops or ticks.

The Ampex box is sort of reddish
and brown split 50%. There is a
sticker on the metal reel that I think has Ampex 756 on it.

The lady I bought it from had no info as to where it came from.



I still have the tape if anyone would like to see pics of it just PM me. Also if anyone knows what I have that would be great info.

 

Very cool find. That configuration of tracks originated with the "1991 cassette transfers" - so what you found sounds like possibly a reel-to-reel copy someone made of the first cassette. The other possibility is that unbeknownst to anyone before, perhaps what wound up as the "1991 cassettes" were first transferred to reel-to-reel in a manner similar to the well-known "Basement Safety" that was made in 1969 (also done at 15 ips).

Of course, if you'd like to send me the tape, I'd be happy to offer a more accurate analysis...

Wait - scratch that - I just went back to the Genuine Basement Tapes and realized that there actually isn't a direct correlation between the 1991 cassettes and the first volume - so who knows? Maybe just a reel-to-reel someone made of Vol. 1 of the GBT boot...