Bookshelf speaker suggestions; good efficiency with low-cut bass

Steve Guttenberg has much praise for the Dynadio Evoke 10:



- Perfect sonic signature I am after, good for long listening sessions
- Excellent looks and finish, the wood finishes look absolutely gorgeous.
- Rear ports, but provided with foam-stuffers for closer wall placement

But 84dB? My Audiolab 6000a at 50watts surely won't be able to drive this decently? Are not Dynaudio's famous for requiring heaps of power? 100watts min, preferably 200watts, or is that urban legend?

 

50 watts will be fine unless your room is massive. My dynaudios are rated at 86db, 4 Ohms, and my 25 watt amp goes up to about ‘4 o’clock’ on the dial with really well mastered CDs and I wouldn’t want to go any louder! They’re over 10 years old, I think the newer ones are a bit easier to drive, regardless of specs...

 

Which Dynaudio's and which amp just out of curiosity?

The Audiolab 6000a does 55w into 8ohms, 85w into 4ohms with dynamic bursts of 71w into 8ohms.

My gut tells me, that's still not enough for those power-hungry Dyn's.

My listening is mostly 75-80dB, but sometimes I crank it, and I can peak at 93-95dB (e.g cymbal crashes).

 

Old Audience 52’s. My amp is a tiny Temple Audio Gold class D amp, that is 25 watts max. It does have a ‘gain increase’ function but I never use it as I can’t get the amp past ‘12 o’clock’ as the music becomes too loud and a bit distorted. I used to have a middle of the range Cambridge Audio amp which 65 watts, the Temple Audio amp won’t go as crazy loud, but I have had it loud enough with the Dynaudios in my small space that a poorly hung picture fell off the wall when a bass heavy electronic track kicked in...

Just to add, regardless of the amp I’ve used the dynaudios are excellent across the frequency range they produce - the are very detailed and have a decent soundstage. Maybe a touch cold for some, but I love the detail.

 

Give those a listen. They sound very nice and go deeper than what you might think, while staying very clean. The Dali suggestion is a good one also. They are not too hard to drive either.
-Bill

 

I used to have Castle Eden speakers a larger bookshelf speaker, probably bigger than you're looking for. Very nice aside from not having enough bass for me so I sold them on.

 

Dynaudio Evoke 10s are eliminated. German Stereo Magazine did a review, a positive review:

Dynaudio Evoke 10 & 30 Review

Nonetheless, the quoted 84dB sensitivity did not align with their measurement of 82dB. The power required for 94dB was 47W.

Dynaudio clearly sacrificed sensitivity to get a -3dB of 49Hz.

As much as I love the look, and the tone would be right up my alley, they needs watts, plenty of them, 100W, maybe even 150W plus.

Here is the frequency response:

 

I found a new contender, the new Acoustic Energy AE500:



87dB efficient, which likely may knock down to 85dB when measured independently? (it always seems manufacturers add 2dB).

First review is good:

Acoustic Energy AE500 Stand-Mount Loudspeaker Review

 

Read about the Iron Law and stop trying to break it:

Josef Anton Hofmann - Wikipedia

 

Yes, I want a small loudspeaker that has efficiency and NO BASS.
I will have a room-correcting subwoofer for bass duties.

Unfortunately nearly all small-speaker designers sacrifice efficiency for bass. I want the reverse, and I am struggling to find such a beast.

Suggestions?

 

I think "Iron Law" was an unfortunate choice of words. I think "Iron Theory" is more apt - and allows for scientific challenges, as all great theories do.

For example, I suspect that H-PAS technology could be such a challenger. I've heard it put into practice and it seemed to achieve very low bass response, from a small cabinet, and a not-low efficiency (using a small-diameter woofer to boot.)

I was at CES the year that Peter Tribeman was demonstrating the technology in what was a prototype of what was to become his first H-PAS speaker and I gotta say I, and a number of others, was very impressed.

Jeff

 

How about a pair of Omega Super 3i speakers. They do fit your criteria exactly. I had a pair a while back and ran them to full volume with a 4 watt Bottlehead amp. The lack of bass was why I sold them. Perfect for you, and you can get a finish to suit your taste.

Only issue I see is your location.

 

Did you look at those Tannoys I linked?

TANNOY AUTOGRAPH MINI Oiled-walnut Dual-Concentric Speakers AUTHORIZED-DEALER | eBay

Meet just about all your criteria.

 

I’m using Rega RS1’s with a Martin Logan Grotto sub. Nice mating due to the Regas rolling off pretty steeply below about 80hz. They don’t mind near wall placement despite the rear port. Never heard the RX1 updated version but I’d imagine it’s worth a listen. Very lively and revealing.

 

The RX1 is smoother sounding than the RS1. Both offer a very transparent sound.
-Bill

 

ATC SCM 11’s ?

 

Too big.
Too analytical.
Still low sensitivity at 85dB.

 

Ok, on paper I think I may have found the speaker I was after, the Triangle Titus EZ:



HiFi Bookshelf Speaker - Titus Ez - TRIANGLE Hifi

Quoted sensitivity is 89dB.
Size is 30.5cm x 16.8cm x 26.7cm (LS3/5a, but a bit deeper).

Reviews are excellent:

https://www.trianglehifi.com/wp-con...IANGLE_REVIEW-HIFIWORL-TITUS-EZ-102019-EN.pdf

Measured sensitivity by HiFi World was 87dB.

http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/triangle_esprit_titus_ez_loudspeakers_review_test_lores.pdf

Measured sensitivity by Australian HiFir was 87.5dB.

Triangle Titus EZ Loudspeakers | Hifi Pig

Triangle Esprit Titus EZ review | What Hi-Fi?

Triangle Esprit Titus EZ Compact Speakers Punching far above their weight. Review By Rick Jensen

Steve Guttenberg video review:

 

Another video review by Zero Fidelity:



Tonally, it appears these speakers are not warm and cuddly BBC style monitors. There is a degree of dynamism here that warrants careful matching and positioning.

I believe they would be a great match for the 50w Audiolab 6000a which is a very nice (and neutral) sounding amplifier; which also provides 3 digital filters for distinct tonal changes (fast-rolloff, slow-rolloff and minimum phase). The bass is not super-extended, rapid rolloff below 70Hz and fairly flat frequency response:



Not tricked up treble.
Bass trickles off, good for handing over to a Martin Logan Dynamo (with ARC room correction).

Interesting that Triangle seems to slip through the cracks. Never heard of them before starting this quest. They seem a hidden gem. With their higher than usual sensitivity they would be an ideal match for tube amplifiers.

This could be the ones for me.

 

Many sub systems also suffer from midrange suckout. Why not get something a bit bigger which can lose the sub, and meet your goals close enough?

 

I like subwoofers.
Been using an older Dynamo for a decade.
I can never have a system without a sub, they kick ass when integrated well.

The Triangle Titus EZ seems a perfect match for a subwoofer.

 

Well, there's this stuff Line Level Crossovers slightly crude but effective. However, I see no indication your amp has any main-in so I don't think you can use a crossover anyway. In that case, you should get SEALED speakers, because ported speakers unload below the tuning frequency and the woofers go nuts. Sealed bookshelf speakers with higher efficiency will have even less bass due to physics (search "Hofmann's Iron Law" sometimes misspelled Hoffman). So commerically that is very rare-mostly DIY, either from scratch or kits. Are you open to that? If so you can post at these spots
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/
Multi-Way - diyAudio
There ARE some models like what you want but I cannot recall the thread about that so sorry. Designed for use only with subs, from specialist home theater brands which I can't recall either. Maybe it will come to me. Wait, aha! Post #55
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...s-towers-l-r-home-theater-2.html#post58665870

 

I did research on those line level crossovers.
Basic result, they are very bad for audiophiles (poor sound).

Sealed speakers, generally have lower efficiency and roll-off slower and longer which is worse for passively crossing over to a subwoofer.

Triangle Titus EZ seems the ideal match for a subwoofer; efficient, nice bass roll-off starting around 100Hz.

 

I would think the opposite. Easier to blend a sub with a sealed speaker that drops off predictably vs a ported that drops off a cliff. More blending, less handing off a baton.

 

Big overlaps lead to phase issues.

4th order rolloff I understand is the ideal best for sat to sub and vice-versa.

Triangle Titus EZ appears to have a natural 2nd order roll-off:


Around 70Hz should be the low-pass cross-over point on the sub from the above frequency response.