Brian Jones

Its always been my opinion that Brian Jones added that little bit of spice to the Stone's music other than the R&B roots that they had. Whether it be the way he dressed, or playing a sitar, marimba, harmonica or whatever he added. He was a trendsetter. Other bands were noticing.

 

I'm 2/3 of the way through that book, and while it makes the case for his importance to the band, particularly their more exploratory moments, it doesn't change the fact that they got more distinctive and "impactful" once he was gone.

Also: does anyone else think the book is awfully repetitive? It seems like once or twice per chapter so far Trynka sets up some incident as the definitive indicator of Jones' loss of position in the band to Mick and Keith (and Andrew).

It's a solid read, don't get me wrong, but it does seem a bit like a brief for the defence.

 

Yeah, the jam at the end of "Can You Hear My Knocking" is all Taylor and makes the song even better. (This is a fun thread, all I need to do is regurgitate EsotericCD's gems from the album by album thread).

I'm with old school on this one--George was never the leader of the Beatles, but the Stones started as Brian's band. He was the blues heart of the band and their charting blues cover singles were his triumph, or at least part of it.

 

That is true, but I think you're overstating Brian's importance/influence in '68 and '69. Beggars - he played the killer slide on "No Expectations" and added a bit of color to a few other tracks (sitar, harmonica, mellotron). He did even less on Let It Bleed - autoharp on "You Got The Silver" and then percussion on "Midnight Rambler", I think. For all intents and purposes, he was a very minor contributor to those two, "No Expectations" notwithstanding.

I think you can chalk up the Stones' slide after the '68-'72 run to the following reasons:

- Mick (and wife) became a socialite
- Keith (and wife) became a junkie
- the songwriting dried up after 4 albums after operating at a very, very high level
- the strain of Brian's dissolution/death, getting busted repeatedly, Altamont, leaving Britain, and getting screwed by Klein took its toll - it was a crazy few years and they were just burnt out.

Regardless, I don't think it really had anything to do with Brian not being in the band.

 

He was certainly robbed of a few, like on "Ruby Tuesday".

 

I wouldn't completely dismiss Bobby Keys' input.

 

Woody got more songwriting credits than Brian and Mick Taylor put together.

 

So does Brian Jones have any song writing credits at all?

I am aware of Ronnie's wonderful input to the band and know he has a decent amount of credits. As he should.

 

How do you figure he was robbed?

 

There are couple of songs credited to Nanker/Phelge which I believe was their way of giving the entire band credit and some of those are not officially released.

 

Edit: John Fell beat me to it!

 

DOES BRIAN JONES HAVE ANY SONGWRITING CREDITS CREDITED TO "BRIAN JONES"??

 

I mean, c'mon, how can you not prefer an era called "The BJ Era"... Just sayin'

 

No

 

I love the Brian era Stones and I love the Taylor era Stones! Two different but awesome bands! Although we will never
really know for sure I believe there is some possible truth to the writer who wrote..." The Stones could not have survived
the 60's without Brian but they could never have survived the 70's with him".

This is a quote that I have read but can't remember where or who said it. But I believe there is some truth to it.

Times change and time marches on. All we can do is deal with it and speculate...

 

Cool,
Thanks!

 

You guys know what my favourite Rolling Stones songs of all time are.

The ones that are JAGGER/RICHARDS originals and the ones that are JAGGER/RICHARDS/WOOD originals.

 

The Paul Trynka book is like any other in that how do you know it's true? I don't know the author at all, and I'm certainly not steeped enough in Stones history to know all the stories; which are still just 'stories' to anyone who wasn't there.

Personally I wouldn't doubt that there are Stones songs that could/should have given a song writing credit to Brian. But it goes too far the other way for me when suddenly Brian wrote tons of stuff, melodies, did arrangements. Not that he didn't do any, but what is the truth?

Funny how, unlike Zeppelin, the Stones always gave full credit when they covered a song. But Mick and Keith horded that credit when it came to their own songs.

 

Well the great thing is that by the end of this thread, the controversy of what could have been had Brian not been drugged up and then dead will be definitively resolved and we'll know who is correct, and who is not.

 

So you don't like the Nanker/Phelge songs, the Jagger/Richards/Taylor, Bill Wyman songs and their cover tunes.

 

Coming up with a song's melody line and not getting credited counts, I think.

 

Bill Wyman also says that Paint It Black should have been a Nanker/Phelge group credit.

 

When Brian was playing slide guitar for Alexis Korner in Dartford under the alias Elmo Lewis in 1961 in the audience were Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Dick Taylor. They were blown away how Brian ( Elmo Lewis) played and could not figure out how Brian was playing slide. Mick, Keith and Dick kept saying over and over how is he ( Brian) so good? how does he play that way? Brian Jones was 20 years ahead of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards at that time. When Brian Jones was to form the Rolling Stones he told Alexis Korner I think I'll ask Jagger and Richards if they want to join the new band I'm forming. Alexis Korner warned Brian just take one of them not both! How prophetic Korners statement turned out to be.

 

He was the guy that invented the Stones, named the Stones , and put the Stones together.
He was the brains of the band until he got too screwed up to function well.
Without him the Stones was just a singer of questionable singing ability and a rhythm guitarist who knew how to make cool sounds with a good rhythm section. Had the Stones not found Mick Taylor they might not have been able to continue on.

 

There's no doubt for me that Let it Bleed thru Exile was the peak of their career and probably one of the best run of albums in the history of Rock 'n Roll. They couldn't have gotten there if Brian was never in the band, but I don't think they could have had that run if he had stayed on. I also don't think Oldham was a talented producer, more of a publicist. The addition of Taylor and Miller added a shot of salvation. Brian was certainly part of the launching pad but his excesses made him a liability later on.