Building an audio room from scratch (designing a new home)

I have the opportunity to build a new home (my retirement home). I expect it to be a reasonably large home and it will include an audio room. I'm challenged to find help with this endeavor...

I have seen a few build blogs by well known audiophiles and these are helpful. I'm looking for more sources of help -- the room will have more functions than just audio but, that is at the top of the list. It will have to pass muster with the wife so, it won't be littered with round columns and tons of other sound treatments.

I don't have a budget in mind (because I really don't know all that I need yet) but, it surely isn't unlimited.

I have audiophile level equipment that I don't plan on changing...

Would anyone have any direction for me? books, articles or better yet people that know design.

Thank you.

 

You should start by filling out your profile so we can see what gear you’re going to be using.

 

Done... what do you think?

 

Install an audiophile wall outlet. Synergistic research, wattgate, etc. Best couple hundred bucks you can invest in sound.

 

I just went through this - part of building a new house, with a decent-sized budget but far from a "go crazy" budget.

A few things I learned:

• Most important is room dimensions and proportions. You can drive yourself crazy with this, and the "ideal" proportions (height to width to length) are almost impossible to attain in a residential home. But a ceiling taller than 8 feet is a must, as is a room that is longer than it is wide.
• Second most important thing is sound insulation/isolation: You want to minimize sound going from your room to the rest of the house and vice-versa. The key here is that you want to avoid spending money on pointless sound isolation. So if your room will be sharing an HVAC (air conditioning and heating vent) system with any other part of the house, then you're going to get some sound transmission though the venting no matter what you do. Therefore it's not worth it to spend tons of money killing 100% of sound transmission through the walls because that will just highlight the sound transmitting through the vents. The two main ways to get decent (approx 40+ dB) attenuation of sound going in and out of the room are (A) two layers of 5/8" drywall on the walls and ceiling, with Green Glue acoustic sealant in between the layers; or (B) a "floating wall" with metal standoffs attached to the studs and one layer of 5/8" drywall attached to those. I did the former.
• Special acoustic insulation is good for in-room acoustic panels, but of minimal use inside your walls - regular insulation is nearly as good and the double heavyweight drywall does a lot more to attenuate sound than insulation will. In general, insulation reduces sound transmission to a degree, but not as much as you think; absorbing sound for better sound is different than stopping it for sound reduction/isolation.
• Your builder should use square clay acoustic pads around the light switch and electrical outlet boxes once they are installed and before the drywall goes in - sound will leak through the holes in the electrical boxes, believe it or not.
• Finally - and this was the biggest rude awakening I experienced - sound isolation not only isn't the same thing as sound treatment, but in fact they are often opposed to each other. A room with double 5/8" drywall will help keep sound out - but because it is so massive and rigid, it also makes the room itself much more reflective than a room done in a single layer of regular 1/2" drywall - so the raw room before carpet, furnishings, etc., will have awful flutter/slap echo, worse than the regular rooms of the house. So if you want good sound isolation, you pretty much have to do some in-room sound treatment too. There are very nice-looking acoustic panels, and you don't have to use cylinders - they hang on the walls, and you can even get art or custom photos printed on them. Also, the most annoying echo in a well-isolated room is midrange and treble, which fortunately is super easy to treat with relatively thin panels (much thicker ones are needed for bass), again making it easier to hang attractive looking, not-too-expensive panels on the wall.
• I love hardwood, but IMHO you don't want to put anything but carpet in a dedicated music listening room if you are building from scratch - the floor is the earliest reflection point (followed closely by the ceiling, which of course is affected by the floor), and even a thin/low-pile berber type carpet will do wonders for the sound inside the room compared to a hard-surface floor.

All of the above is just my experience of course - but I think it's important to note that all of the above is not offered in the spirit of super-anal perfectionism. I was aiming only for real-word decent-level room design and treatment, and fortunately I have been able to achieve that. But there's no way I could have had a room with decent sound isolation from the rest of the house and decent internal sound characteristics without in-room acoustic treatments of some kind.

Good luck!

 

When we finished our basement 6 years ago I installed a modest home theater down there. My advice: consider all the low-voltage cabling you might need, as your wife (and probably you) will want much of it buried in the walls and ceiling.

Are you going to use the space for video? If there’s even an outside chance, be sure to include cabling for video, and an AC outlet for a projector. And of course don’t forget to get those surround sound wires inside the walls and think about in-wall or in-ceiling speakers for surround sound (but God-forbid, not for two channel audio! ) HDMI is fairly standard right now, but might not be in the future. I have a 50’ run and it works okay if you get the right cable. If you need a longer run install a couple of Ethernet cables so you have the option of doing HDMI over Ethernet. Perhaps there’s a better solution.

Speaking of which, for the whole house I would suggest running Ethernet cable to most rooms. WiFi is nice but who know what our future data needs will be. This will be relatively inexpensive and probably helpful.

@tubesandvinyl suggested an audiophile outlet, but go further than that and have a few outlets on a dedicated circuit for gear. When we renovated our house two years ago I got a dedicated 20 amp, 12 gauge circuit for my stereo.

I also wired the whole house with Cat6 Ethernet cable. You might want to use a newer standard. (our contractor wanted to run Cat5 but I nixed that idea immediately!)

Other than that you probably want to think about room shape and size, and ceiling height since these all relate to acoustics.

Also, how about sound proofing? There’s lots of products that can be used during construction that supposedly helps with this.

Have fun!

 

Yes, separate circuits for audio (and hell, also separate ones for your video, and separate ones for where the cable comes in and you expect to wire the most computer and router stuff); talk to a pro about what you could do to "clean" the power coming into the house...and, grounding.

Ever think of wiring speaker cables in-wall? I wish I was listening to the news channels in the kitchen while preparing dinner...because the wife sure doesn't want to sit through it once I'm serving it to her...! Also, more rooms can accommodate rears for 5.1 (or 7.1)(or...Atmos ) if you don't have to worry about running wires after the fact.

Ethernet (I'm already wondering if I should have gone with Cat 6a) will not only guarantee you more instances of consistent, non-buffering signals, but less interference with the wi-fi you do have indoors for other devices, and less interference.

Now let's talk solar panels and battery array...!

(heh - and you and the missus just thought it was gonna be, "where we gonna hang the porch swing", huh... )

 

I am going through a similar thing, having a huge room built from scratch. The most important thing that is problematic in nearly all normal rooms is the bass, where regular rooms will have as much as 10-20 db swings. Look into a room design that can integrate bass traps along the front wall. Unfortunately this will be expensive to do properly but it will make a massive difference to your sound quality, along the order of being just as important as the speakers.

Edit: there is a lot you can read about here, I think Nyal Mellor's site is a good starting point: Room Acoustic Treatment, Acoustic Sound Design, Small Room Acoustics

 

Forgot to mention that - yes, agree 100%! I had pretty much every room wired with ethernet, and the upcharge was minimal, less than $1,000 for all the extra wire and all the extra labor. I too spec'd CAT6 (actually CAT6e) - I did some research and from what I found there's really no advantage to justify paying extra for CAT7. One small tip - apparently you want unshielded ethernet cable. Sounds counterintuitive, but apparently less-than-perfect installation where the cable meets the outlets can create gound-noise issues with shielded cable. Unshielded cable doesn't suffer from this.

Another great benefit of wiring up the entire house is that you can install wireless routers as nodes instead of extenders - in other words, if you want a wireless router on the 3rd floor and one in the basement, each one can get its own network signal from a wired ethernet wall outlet in the same room - the two routers don't have to depend on picking up each others wireless signal in order to extend your network. Much easier way to set up wireless in the house and maintain good speed and connectivity.

Yes, if your spouse will approve, the ideal way to treat the room is simply to build a second wall inside the main wall - with the second wall having fabric instead of drywall in front of the in-wall insulation. It turns the entire room into one giant acoustic panel. Another option is to have the room framed out more like an octagon than a rectangle - apparently if the corner angles are about 125 degrees or more instead of 90 degrees, you can virtually eliminate the accumulation of bass frequencies in the corners of the room.

But these methods are rather extreme and can impact the aesthetics of the room of course.

 

I'm looking into products for the walls. There are a number of products so, I'm trying to figure out which on is best. I was reading about Acoustic Science Corp's wall damp system and I'll look into some that were mentioned. Is there a place to compare the products? We are still in the design phase so, I haven't talked to the builder yet...

This room will have a TV -- I have a 70" 4K that I'll probably put on the wall (and yes, I'll have a 5.1 system but, I think the Wilson's will dominate the sound).

I like the idea of not having 90 degree corners but, I think I'll be stuck with them. The home will be in FL so, I'm also going to have to deal with a corner of glass (Hurricane resistant glass) that I'll have to deal with... That also means that the outside wall will be block construction -- any issue with that?

I would like to find out more about wall treatments that look good! I showed my wife some pictures and she wasn't really happy with some of the looks...

Thank you for all the ideas and help -- I have a long way to go...

By the way, I'm new to Steve Hoffman -- do people post "build" logs here? We won't break ground for 6 months but, if people are interested I'll post the room plans and the build if I can?

 

For wall treatments, from what I can tell the main options for pre-made panels are (in no particular order):

• Real Traps
• GIK Acoustics
• Primacoustic
• Audimute

GIK and Audimute are, in my experience, the best values. Real Traps also are a good value for what you get, and they have arguably the most detailed technical knowledge behind them (because founder Ethan Winer is extremely knowledgeable at a very detailed level). But if you consult with Real Traps they're going to recommend a large number of very thick traps, including at wall, ceiling and floor corners - very conspicuous. (GIK has great one-on-one email and phone consultation included free with purchase too - and they too are going to recommend a zillion panels and traps if you consult with them.) Primacoustic seems to be the most expensive for what you get, but they are distinctive in that they offer panels with beveled edges, which look nice (although provide slightly less absorption. (I think Audimute might also offer beveled edges on some panels as an extra cost option).

I went with a combo of GIK and Audimute panels, and probably would've gone all-GIK except that I found a set of unused Audimutes in my desired color on my local Craigslist for a steal, so I grabbed them.

One main difference among the brands is that some (like GIK) have frames that are thicker than the insulation, leaving a built-in air gap in the back, which increases the effectiveness of the panel. Others (like Audimute and Primacoustic) don't, and you have to hang them with spacers to create the air gap in the back (Audimute has very handy and easy to install standoff mounts for this - and the panels look really nice floating off the wall, although the brackets are somewhat visible.)

I think all of them except Real Traps (and maybe Real Traps too) offer the option of art-printed fabric instead of solid colors; and at least some of them offer the option of having your own photo/custom art printed on the fabric.

GIK also offers "range limiters" for their panels, which are basically thin reflection/dispersion layers that go on top of the acoustic panel, which results in the panel absorbing slightly more bass and somewhat less midrange and treble. The theory is that bass is the most dominant reflective frequency range, and the hardest to absorb, so if you put a ton of bass and broadband traps in the room, you can accidentally end up absorbing so much midrange and treble in the process, that the room ends up sounding muffled or too "dead." A super-dead room can be ideal for a recording or editing studio, but a consumer listening room generally is considered to need a bit of "liveness" in the mids and treble to sound pleasing to most people.

When you get into the big bass traps with the range limiters added, GIK's products start to get pretty expensive.

The bottom line is that, as with buying speakers themselves, dealing with the lower frequencies - roughly 160Hz and lower when it comes to acoustic treatments - requires the most money and the most bulky and elaborate measures. If you keep expectations for bass control realistic, you can get away with a lot less, less expensive, and more attractive treatments.

There are also tons of DIY methods out there - YouTube is filled with them. They are mostly quite similar: Use Owens Corning 703 or 705 fiberglass panels, or Roxul or similar brand mineral wool panels; build a frame of cheap wood; put the panels in the frame; cover with acoustically transparent fabric and staple in the back.

Lots of folks have made great panels - but in my experience they're not actually as cheap to make as the YouTube video titles imply ("$20 acoustic panel!"). By the time you get all the fabric you need, and source the insulation panels (and factor in shipping unless you can find them locally - and locally they're often more expensive than online), and buy the hanging hardware, and if necessary buy a good quality heavy duty staple gun, your per-panel cost starts to get to about 75% or more of an equivalent pre-made panel. If you're spending all the money on building a whole house, you need to think carefully about whether you want to spend hours making your own panels to save a total of, say, $500 for a room's worth of panels. Not to mention that making your own bass traps is a whole other level of effort and hassle beyond just making your own 2-4" thick wall panels.

As for glass, it's always going to be more reflective than drywall or fabric/carpet. If you can put curtains or pretty much any wall treatment (except perhaps aluminum blinds) over the glass block that would help. On the other hand, you have a life to live, and one corner of glass isn't going to run your listening experience, so my $.02 would be don't sweat it too much.

 

Here's the online 'bible' for room building and acoustics.

Acoustics/Treatment Reference Guide - LOOK HERE! - Gearslutz

 

So it sounds like you have a decent budget to work with. I will add that in room/wall bass treatment will only get you so far with completely flat bass, the reason being low bass with its large wavelengths is going require a large amount of absorption. From the measurements I have seen of all the popular brands only the RPG Modex Plates are what I would consider exceptional for low-mid bass and up. I have never seen any products that truly work well with low bass.

The second method to smooth out the bass is with multiple subwoofers, this will fix the very low bass problems. Earl Geddes has a succinct explanation here:



If you're still interested in this method I can link to a few AES papers that are freely available that go into it more.

I would post this at AVS Forum or Audio Science Review as well, there are more experts there on acoustics. This is something you want done properly once in a systematic method.

 

Doesn't Rocwool shed breathable particles ?

 

https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/18/18eb8203-b930-4d60-af20-cf53304d75d0.pdf

This is standard sized insulation with superior acoustic properties. Better than fiberglass. Not sure if it’s usable with block construction. Block construction from what I understand is better than stick build for acoustic isolation. Slab floor?

 

A few items:
Concrete slab on grade
Double walls (with no connections between the two) for sound isolation
Side walls should not be parallel
Ceiling should slope upward from source (low) to high in the back

 

There is a ton of discussion about this, spread across a lot of different threads, over at gearslutz.com (major audio DIY site). Long story short, you don't want this stuff exposed in your room, but there are 1000s (millions?) of acoustic panels with both fiberglass and Rockwool in them all over the world, encased in fabric, which seems to be safe. There've also been multiple studies that show that all insulation materials are lung irritants when inhaled repeatedly over a long period of time, but apparently mineral wool is actually the safest because its fibers are less abrasive than fiberglass and - surprisingly - easier for the lungs to expel than the recycled cotton/denim stuff. (The recycled denim also is treated with an anti-mold agent that appears to migrate out as dust and be potentially unhealthy.)

But I am by no means aa scientific expert, and it is possible that acoustic panels are increasing health risks in listening rooms and studios around the world. On the whole, though it would seem that panels with fabric on all sides do not present a health risk.

Here's a link to a really nice comprehensive overview someone at Gearslutz did, based on combing through the scientific literature. The conclusion seemed to be that mineral wool is safest on the whole:

The Comparative Safety of Rockwool, Fiberglass, and Organic Fibers (a review) - Gearslutz

 

If the particles are breathable (and rockwool has small enough particles to get to the deepest parts of the lungs) then acoustically transparent fabric is doing little to stop those from flying around. That's why I ended up stuffing my panels with 32 kg/m3 Fonac foam. My wife has allergy issues and the absorption provided by rockwool at the same thickness is only slightly better at 250 hz; I was concerned only with the 500-4 Khz region.



Sure, if it were for me, I'd have glued the foam against the wall, but the wife wasn't cool with that so I made panels. Helped she didn't have any pictures hanging on the walls and found the grey fabric panels ¨decorative in a post-modern way¨ (WAF WAF !). And I like them better this way too !

It's ok to have mineral fibers inside walls/ceilings, sealed in plastic and sprayed with glues , than hung on the walls all around the living room. This is my gut feeling; maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm not willing to take the risk with that wool, for maybe a few dbs of absortion. The foam was some U$ 35 more expensive than the rockwool for all 6 panels, so no pockets were torn.

 

Are the architectural plans finished at this time? Or are you still able to request changes (possibly large ones)?

Given the level of investment you have in your audio system, I think you need to ask yourself (and she who must be obeyed ) some questions:

1. what sort of budget (5-figures? 6-figures? 7-figures?) are you considering?
2. how coupled/de-coupled does the room need to be from the rest of the house?
3. does the room need to be a regular shape, or not, or merely give the appearance of regularity after the installation of acoustic treatments? [Think regular rectangular shape vs. non-parallel walls and/or sloping ceiling.]
4. linked to 3. above, how important are considerations like sales attractiveness -- do you think a treated music/AV room will add/remove value? Ditto for regular vs. non-regular room shape? Since this is a retirement home, will you care after you are gone?
5. how large can the room be? The higher the ceiling, the better, and this is most commonly over-looked.
6. do you really want to mix audio with video? Is a separate TV room not an option?
7. if the room has to support a 5.1 (or bigger) M-ch system, it is important to take this into account in the planning.

I don't expect you to answer any of the above - they are for your consideration.

Given what you have written, I think you need to contact some audio designers who can work with your architect to create the space(s) both you and your wife want. Adding in off-the-shelf diffusors, absorbers, bass-traps, etc. is not the way to go, IMO.

Based on your wife's reactions, I would think you want something more like this:

Transparent Cable listening room:



If the stepped ceiling and sculpted walls are out of the question, then how about something like this:

former Super Audio Center editing/mastering room (now part of Immersive Studios):



These examples are just to show that you can use custom treatments with cloth coverings to make the room look regular, and more appealing, hopefully, to your wife.

If you want to combine video, I would suggest a projection system rather than a 70" TV. A motorized screen can be hidden away when you want to do serious music listening. Similarly, I would re-think the corner of glass. Why spend a lot of money on a great system and room only to introduce a large asymmetric reflector?

Does the room need to be part of the main house structure? Have you considered a separate room? This will help with isolation without having to resort to a floating room.

If I was you, I would contact some audio designers to see how much they would charge to manage your project, and to give you an idea of what sort of outlay you can expect for custom treatments. I would expect them to give advice on things like room dimensions; mains cabling/noise minimization; air-co issues; what types of lighting fixtures, switches, etc. to use. They should then work with your architect and builder to deliver the listening room of your dreams.

Just to get you started, you could consider:

Bob Hodas: Bob Hodas - Acoustic Analysis

K2: K2

RPG: https://www.rpgacoustic.com/

Harris-Grant: https://www.harrisgrant.com/residential.php

Kirkegaard Associates: Kirkegaard Associates

Bob Hodas is very well known in this field, and I have been in some rooms that he was involved in. I know from Gus Skinas that Rich Zwiebel (Rich Zwiebel | K2 ) of K2 was involved in the design of the Super Audio Center room I showed above (and it was fabulous sounding!). RPG, Harris-Grant and Kirkegaard are all excellent, but don't come cheap!

Since you use Transparent's top cables, you could try contacting them to see if they will tell you who consulted on their room.

I don't know whether it is important for you to find someone local to you now, or local to Florida, but I can't help with suggestions for those places, but maybe some other forum members can.

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

Good luck with the project. Be sure to follow up when it is all done.

 

I built a home theater a few years ago while doing a house addition. so far lots of good points made here already.
I had mine built with 2x6 construction using regular insulation with 2 layers of 5/8 blu-board & plastered walls. I was careful not to make the room square and built ins included and various ceiling heights
( tre ceiling) to break up reflections. acoustic puddy around outlets and light switches. Also had the room zoned separately for AC/Heat. I included a heavy duty door with gasket trim to seal around door opening when shut leaving no gaps. carpet on the floor
I also incorporated acoustic panels from acousticmas. on the side, back, front corner walls.
I would also install conduit within the wall to run various cables to equipment and any type of screen, TV and/or projector. very easy to swap out if needed.
pre-wire for cat-6-7, whatever. cable and anything you intend to use in the room.
Run cable for more speakers than you want right now just to be future proof incase you want 7.1 or Atmos etc. down the road.
I had my room set up for TV and projection screen ( flat and motorized) to cover all bases.
build in extra nailers in the walls where you intend to hang items ( TV, heavy duty framed art etc).
take many pictures of the room framed out before board goes up and measure where the nailers are-no guess work when completed.
Also if you do intend to make this a music/viewing room. wire on the floor ( or into riser like I did) for outlets for power reclining furniture. so you are not running cables along floor to wall outlets.
Screw everything in-flooring etc instead of nails. much more secure less chance for squeaks down the road.
probably leaving a lot out, but these are just some main things to consider- hope it helps.

 

Only the inside walls should not be parallel. The outside walls don't matter and can be made of concrete blocks.

 

Oh my, full Vivaldi stack in a large, custom room

 

I wanted to start by saying that the folks on this Forum have been great -- I just joined and the inputs have been very helpful -- Thank you all!

The starting point it that I don't want the room de-coupled from the house (acoustically yes, physically no). My current listening room is in a guest house (not set up for music) and the goal is to be in the same house as my wife... She could care less about music but, with it just being the two of us... One house is best.

I don't know what the budget will really be -- much of the cost will be just added into the total cost of the home and that will be low 7 figures.

Shape of the room? Still working on that but, the starting point is a rectangle... The ceiling is another story -- it is possible there is a room above and with that I'll be limited to the 12' that we expect for the rest of the downstairs. My wife is always thinking about re-sale, at the same time, we don't expect to be selling for a number of years.

We are just beginning planning -- we sent our wants to the person designing the building and we are still weeks away from the first draft. I expect the room to be something like 18' to 20' wide and 25+' long with 12+' ceilings. I call this "big" -- what do you think? With the size of the room my wife doesn't want a "plain" ceiling -- what would you suggest? tray? cathedral? beam accents? Should I push for higher than 12'? (I have no idea the cost of making it higher as we haven't gotten that far).

This room will be an important part or our "indoor/outdoor" living (it will be built in a warm climate) so, the glass opening in the corner isn't negotiable... but, it will have blinds and drapes to cover. The same with the TV -- it will be my main place to watch. I'm planning to building a curtain or something to cover it during serious listening.

I'll put in a separate breaker box run #10 wire and plenty of conduit to cover any potential changes (like moving the TV to the side wall). I'm also planning of doubling up on the A/C vents and putting a return at the end of the room with the amps (400 watts of tube each is a lot of heat).

I was told that you need a very dark room for a projector -- is this still the case? Do people use projectors for everyday use? I'll be watching sports but, I'll be watching the news too.

I'll finish with a "funny" story. Yesterday a good friend of mine -- a guy who is amazing at working with Phono stopped by for a few hours of listening... When I mentioned the insights I was getting from this forum he told me that the day before he was working at Steve Hoffman's place on his system! How cool is that.

 

Build a granny flat in the back yard, crank up the tunes and get away from the wife!

 

I don't think I mentioned that I plan on extending the block (cinder block) around the the speaker area -- building the interior wall behind the speakers and continuing on the inside wall (at least 8'). Keeping the door away from the corner and putting at least 8' down the inside wall. I was told that it is much easier to sound insulate the block wall vs. a stick built inside wall.