Buying records is no longer fun (for me)

Nice, I picked up a copy of Emergency Third Rail Power Trip a few years back for £10.

 

Disposable/discretionary. Must be a British/American thing, yes?

 

Nice!
If you don't have them already, you might like Explosions in the Glass Palace and the somewhat more scarce Beyond the Sunset some or all of which was recorded in Tokyo in 1984. Both are excellent!

 

Thank you for pointing that out.
Sorry, yes, my mistake.
It should be "discretionary" income to be more clear.
Too late to edit my post so will leave as is.

 

I can see why the OP would say this. Used vinyl prices have gone up and and profiteering is happening. People get justifiably excited by new pressings, then hope for the best when they receive the record - even if they do their research on where it is pressed, something may still be wrong with it. The prices and postage costs seem to be points of contention, debate and strong feelings, to say the least. I'm sticking to the labels I know and trust, as well as buying records from the 80's or so, because certain titles pressed in the 60's and 70's are too expensive as original pressings - I don't need the originals anyway.
I've got no-one to impress and I know I won't be bothered I'm going to damage something expensive. I'm still having fun with the used CD's and they sound great.
I haven't got into vinyl flipping yet, but may well do so to fund other vinyl purchases - I just need to work on my grading, which I will do by erring on the side of caution.

If anyone has tips on grading (records only - I can figure out the sleeve descriptions) apart from 'be honest', I'd be glad to hear them as I can't think of a more informed group of people to ask.

 

I only know these things because my wife is really into finance and she keeps trying to drill these terms into my head, haha! I just say, "Yes, dear. I'm going to go spin some records now."

 

Yes, if one’s vinyl buying/music listening is limited to:

Beatles
Stones
Led Zeppelin
Who
Miles Davis
Coltrane
Hendrix
Etc..

It’s time to expand the palette.

 

No, they have totally different meanings. Discretionary income is income left after paying bills (housing, food, utilities). Disposable income is income after taxes. Of course, some here might consider records more important than food.

 

The problem is used prices no longer reflect the number of copies out there. When vinyl collecting becomes less trendy you will see prices normalise but maybe still a lot higher than a decade ago. I knew things had become ridiculous when this year I saw the asking prices for original pressings of Rumours. I think this has been fueled by the pandemic and people with money and plenty of spare time. In the end of the day there is a limited number of people who can afford these prices. More are risking them as investment, but as soon as prices drop somewhat the demand will cool. People think prices only keep going up but you only have to look at certain antiques to know prices are lower than 20-30 years ago. It all depends what is on trend at the time. If there was a renaissance in innovative rock music would the classic titles be so popular? Two things need to happen. Firstly titles need to stay in print (not limited editions) and secondly be available in the same audio and sleeve quality as originals. Only done for a short time by Classic Records as far as rock is concerned. We need a Rock equivalent to Tone Poet and Acoustic Sounds Jazz releases.

 

Or when someone wants 10 Euros on discogs for Tracy Chapman's debut album in good condition with no outer sleeve. And that's a third of the price of the next available copy. The median price on discogs is £24. It makes my 75p purchase years ago look like the bargain of the century.

 

This.

I've never meant my original post to give the impression than I'm just whining about record prices, but it seems that's where the conversation went.

Prices are only part of the problem. It's not that I missed the days when you could find bargains for a couple of dollars. I don't miss those days because I never lived through them. As many others, I bought CDs for many years.

Besides prices, the problem to me is that we're seeing days in which exclusivity is more important than music. Many collectors can't be satisfied unless they find first editions, and as I result, almost any record has become some sort of holy grail, which makes prices go up beyond what many titles (easily available) are really worth.

When it comes to new vinyl, the situation isn't better. We're being presented with more and more limited, exclusive editions that welcome speculators and flippers. Plus many indie record stores have difficulties accessing many, less popular release.

All this makes the experience of going to stores and buying vinyl much less enjoyable.

That's why a high-quality reissue series for many classic rock titles would be very welcome. Like the latest Blue Note reissue series. They're excellent and solve the problem of having to find original pressings if you don't want to spend that kind of money. And they said titles will remain in print, so there's no need to stress that you need to buy now or pay much extra in a few months.

 

I just spoke to a lawyer last week about vinyls and pretty much he's been collecting like others but something went to his mind and he is not really buying new released lately.
So I ended up selling him a cassette deck....

 

It will always be fun for me - there are still hundreds of records out there that would be a welcome addition, plus there are few experiences more exciting than finding that rare or unusual record (sure, you could get it online but wheres the fun in that!?)

 

It's weird seeing an album I bought in the 90's for $16 now reissued for $60! & paying $20 for music that is "just ok" is pretty unsatisfying. I just go do my rounds to the thrift shops & every once in a while something good pops up.

"Take it easy baby, take it as it comes!"

 

Totally agree, this is the aspect that annoys me as well. Example... Tom Petty's Wildflowers and All The Rest is $175 in the US, here in Europe it is €250. Now here is the strange part.. the boxset was pressed in Europe, go figure!!!

JG

 

Yes, in my advancing years what I like to do is complain about everything.

I’ve become a bit competitive with it and bored with common topics. So what I do is find things that are completely optional, recreational, really only exist for enjoyment and find ways to tare it apart in a public forum. It really makes me feel better about myself when I alone can find fault. But really it’s camaraderie of like minded retirees coming together to complain in a glorious chorus that feels like a day at the spa.

 

Records are “really worth” what a buyer will pay for them. Period. They’re not worth what you or I or anyone else think they ought to be worth. If enough people think Rumours is a holy grail and are willing to pay $20 for a copy of it, it’s worth $20. In that scenario, it’s not “really worth” $5 or whatever you think it should be worth.

 

The Blue Note 80/Classics series is a total crapshoot, as far as pressing quality goes. And titles in both that series and the Tone Poet series have in fact gone out of print. They say they will be repressed, but, until that actually happens, they’re out of print.

Of course there are classic rock titles reissued on vinyl every week, but record companies can’t just institute, say, an Atlantic Masters Series like the Blue Note or Acoustic Sounds reissue series, because too many rock artists have veto power over how their catalog is exploited. Led Zeppelin allowed their catalog to be reissued by Classic Records in the past, but pulled that license, and have given no indication they’ll license their music to an audiophile vinyl label again anytime soon. It’s easier for Blue Note to exploit 60-year-old jazz titles from artists who, by and large, signed away all of their rights and/or are dead now and not there to have any say in how their catalog is exploited.

 

Not saying this is you as it looks like your just viewing it from others eyes. If this is the case then this person would have some sort of entitlement mentality. I'v had many hobbies and sometimes collecting is part of it. It's always wanting to get the best I could, learning and grow within the hobby and or building my collection with quality. In every single case there is always different levels of cost, what's in demand and viewed as the pinnacle of the hobby/collector.

But at no time, not being able to have and afford the absolute pinnacle ever diminished the fun and enjoyment I would have. With records it's no different with me, I get in where I fit in, I don't have to have everything and just participate, grow and learn. Everybody has different access and funds they put into their hobbies. The level of it can change over time, sometimes when someone starts out they can't justify some of the cost. Most will grow and start seeing that maybe the higher cost for something is worth the price.

If someone can't enjoy collecting records, playing them due to cost then it's really on them and not the industry and community. There is affordable levels that even a kid with a paper rout earning can enjoy.

The use of the word flipper on this site for people selling records I find very bizarre. It's used to vilify others that have the foresight to buy things they feel have more value. Not only that, buying, selling, trading and collecting records is the hole hobby. We do this to listen to records that might be hard to find or we don't have. It's been going on as long as I can remember, and is how the whole market moves.

Some people today don't have any local record stores, if it wasn't for online sales of second hand records they wouldn't have any records. If records didn't have any value, or where not a collectable that can be bought and soled, there would be none to buy online. This whining about people selling records and one doesn't like the price of them is total BS all. Every single one of use have a record that has a higher price / value on it than when we bought it. If someone chooses to sell it, trade it at this higher price that's their choice.

The other thing is my local store doesn't sell online and there are records there that people can't buy unless they get to the secondary market and posted online. I guess people are supposed to buy these records, post them online so more people can buy what they want, but sell them at a loss or be vilified with condescending words as a flipper.

 

Do we have actual evidence that a significant number of people are buying LPs as speculators? (Note that this is different from flipping, which is short-term: speculators are holding their purchases assuming they’re going to rise in value over the long term.) Speaking personally, I know a lot of people who buy vinyl, but all of us actually listen to our purchases.

I’m interested in the whole financial aspect this conversation has taken, but I have to admit that not much of it resonates for me. Apparently, my wife and I should be those people buying the high-ticket items — we’re late in our careers and making decent money, we opted not to have kids and we don’t have a mortgage or car payments (she’s lived within a couple blocks of a subway stop her entire life and so never even bothered to learn to drive!) — and yet both of us have fairly strict rules about what we’ll pay either new or used. I just don’t see the point of spending three figures on some holy grail record, especially if it’s something I bought a decent copy of 35 years ago. I’d rather buy something I’ve never heard for ten bucks and see if it’s awesome or not.

 

Thanks for this point. I was not trying to actually say it, but based on some of the comments, I sense this entitlement showing time and again. This is especially strong when there is a gap between what a person can afford vs. what the market demands.

I also agree that there are varying degrees of collecting "range" that anyone can continue to have fun regardless of prices. However, this assumes that the person can adjust and be satisfied with that range and continue to have fun.

I didn't mean to use "flipper" in a negative way, if you read it that way. I appreciate people who "flip" records for resale (SHF classifieds, eBay, Discogs or my favorite used record store). Without these people, I would never be able to buy an out-of-print record that I didn't know about/was not alive when it was released or was not interested back then, but now I deem a "must have."

 

I find great stuff all of the time. Affordable, too. It greatly depends on where you are and what you’re interested in. Having picked up most of the common classics awhile ago, I’m more interested in the less familiar stuff.
I still have a blast going through boxes and boxes of 45’s looking for the interesting and obscure, but I know that I’m in the minority.

 

Or...they ensure you will never be able to go to your local record store and find desirable albums that are priced less than the top rate on discogs. If all you want to do is shop online, they are great but a man selling online for profit kills your local inventory and drives the price up. A big reason for crazy prices on TVZ albums and many, many others. People that buy records for a living do take some of the fun out of the hobby.

 

I think what might be ruining the fun is an influx of crappy sellers, who don't really understand the nuances of grading (or collecting, for that matter) and are merely trying to capitalize on the trend. Not only do they inflate prices, but they give the hobby a bad name, in general.

Otherwise, I find it hard to begrudge someone who makes a living buying something at one price and selling it for another, which is in some form or another how basically 90% of business owners earn their income, in general. Some people go out looking for gold in the nearest valley, others find it at the local flea market or record store, and most buy it wholesale before selling it at retail prices. That's not to mention the laws of supply and demand. I guess in the old days you'd have to open a record store to be a traditional re-seller but the Internet changed all that.

As an aside, I would add that rising prices for solid copies of rare original classic albums is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. We're coming upon 60th anniversaries for iconic releases from the "album era" and finding those releases in great condition will only get more difficult as time passes. In the same way that a rare painting or even a rare bottle of whiskey might increase in value over time, I'd like to think that we as a species would hold similar stock in original pressings of certain albums. For average buyers, it also lends the hobby a certain investment value (providing the trend continues, which is no guarantee) and one that actually offers tangible pleasure during the interim. I'll take that over a bottle of whiskey that one never opens or something like Dogecoin (no judgment here) any day!

PS. Full disclosure: I buy and sell vinyl.

 

I’ll make no judgment on right or wrong but turning a local record store into a Warehouse for online sellers makes going to the record store less fun for people buying for their collection. Adding a step in the sales/distribution to the end user only makes it more expensive. In most cases the flipper is not providing a service for which to be compensated, they just know when inventory will be available and hoard it for profit. There are many, many instances where is regulated, prohibited and just wrong. With all the disruptions to supply chains of late I’m sure we can all think of examples. In fact it would be pretty weird to go into any retail store and clear the shelf of a product just to sell it for a profit.

but I’m relaxed about, enjoy. If someone wants to deal with shopping, selling, shipping , dealing with Dbag internet buyers, high eBay fees so that can make $10 on an REO speed wagon record....have fun. I’ll just leave it in the bin and hope it makes someone behind be have a fun day of record shopping.