Agreed. Its funny because I only find him tolerable in a group setting with guys like Stills or McGuinn.
Huh. So I was misremembering Crosby as being a bigger dick than he actually was. That's not something that happens very often.
As Maggie noted, Crosby viewed himself primarily as a singer and songwriter, not an instrumentalist. I'm sure he considered himself by far the best songwriter in The Byrds. His comment was meant to say that the other Byrds were not good enough musicians to bring his songs to life, not to say that they weren't as good of instrumentalists as he was. Crosby is someone who seems to admire chops/technical skill over feel/creativity. He could never really appreciate Mike Clarke's quirky drumming, and I remember reading (in Jimmy McDonough's excellent Neil Young biography Shakey) how Crosby used to criticize Crazy Horse and tell Neil Young that they were not worthy of playing with him. He simply could not understand how the unique, idiosyncratic sound of that band enhanced Neil's work and took it to a different level, despite their extreme lack of technical skill.
I like how you finessed that, lol. It still suggests that the two had met beforehand and had, at some point, discussed McGuinn’s guitar playing, his strengths/limitations. But even in this scenario, Stills remains the only confirmed dick, while one could conceivably argue that Crosby had stood up for McGuinn in the prior exchange, in which case his level of dickishness remains unchanged.
I know what he is saying, and I've heard what he thinks of Crazy Horse, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Roger and Chris were writers too, and writers of successful/good singles, unlike someone at that point.... I was saying, if he didn't think THEY were good enough, then he is essentially calling his own playing ****e.
Chris played Europe in 2006? I thought he hardly ever made it outside the US. Was it part of a tour or just a one-off?
No he's not. I think Crosby viewed himself as the best harmony singer around, and he was also a solid rhythm guitar player. So as far as the specific roles he was assigned to play in the band, he probably felt like no one could really do better than him. Whereas in his mind there were better drummers and better lead guitarists, so his bandmates were open to criticism in a way he felt he was not. He felt he was the best at what he was assigned to do and they were not. And as noted, he also felt he was the best songwriter in the band. I don't think commercial success was his barometer for quality of songwriting. Of course I don't agree with his opinions, I'm just explaining where I think he was coming from.
LOL Ref his infamous quote that "Music shouldn't have any rules." But when he was inspired or less doped up or something he wrote some remarkable songs that, if not conventional, at least didn't stray too far afield from established forms. Have you heard the 1972 Crosby Nash album? His material there is wonderful, especially 'Games' and 'Page 43'. And there's Neil's favorite song of David's "Carry Me". So he had his moments, though I would agree his reach often feel short of his grasp.
I would add that Crosby thought very highly of his songwriting what it took to pull of the performances. And he had a right to. He was not prolific, but he was original. After shaving off the excesses of “Mind Games”, he wrote songs that had the experimental quality, but fashioned to better ends. Songs like “Song With No Words”, “Whole Cloth”, “Dancer” and “Homeward Through The Haze” are where Crosby’s experiments lead him. Crosby frequently had problems with even the CSNY bands. His stuff tended to be more complex. He needed players like Russ Kunkel, Danny Kortchmarr, and Lee Sklar to perform his songs as he envisioned them. Something like “Low Down Payment” probably required dexterous plays who could handle the time changes. Crosby was always a little narrow, however, when it came to whether the musicianship suited the singer and song. Thus, we have him calling Crazy Horse “Neil’s garbanzo band”, when Crazy Horse was exactly the right group of guys for Neil and those songs. Crosby thought ever Neil Young album should be Harvest or Comes A Time.
YES! Stills and Mcguinn did cross paths recently - like this year - to help promote Echo In the Canyon. The are socially distant - but apparently both got the morning memo on what to wear. LOL. Quite a picture, a Dylan, a Beatle, a Byrd and a Buffalo Springfield. Ironically, at this point, Roger and Stills could pass for brothers. I wonder if they had it guaranteed that Croz wouldn’t be there? Also curious if they had a chat - now THAT would be interesting! +10 Joining Ringo at the premiere were Jakob Dylan, far left, Roger McGuinn, left, and Stephen Stills,right ‘The period we’re talking about is ’65 through ’67,’ Slater explained to The Hollywood Reporter last September when the documentary was screened at the Los Angeles Film festival. ‘It’s how The Byrds were listening to The Beatles, and The Beatles were listening to The Beach Boys, and The Beach Boys were listening to The Beatles and how all that cross-pollination happened to create this music that resonates across the world and across time.’ Among the legends who contribute to the movie are Brian Wilson, Stephen Stills, David Crosby, Graham Nash, Michelle Phillips, Jackson Browne, Eric Clapton, Roger McGuinn and Lou Adler. The Byrds frontman Roger McGuinn, 76, also showed up to support the event as did Stephen Stills, 74. Echo in the Canyon will open in select theaters in LA on May 24 and New York City
This may have been posted - but if you haven’t seen or heard it - here it is. Gene and Roger in concert. Gene is clear, sharp and exquisite in both singing and musicianship. Roger is looser than usual, in fact on Jolly Roger he might amuse you when he flails around like a drunken sailor! I loved it.
Sorry, I always feel like I'm distracting from the topic at hand whenever I jump into this thread, but I had a question about the actual Byrds if anyone wants to handle it. So I'm sure one of you experts has the Unsurpassed Masters 1965 boot and could possibly explain what's going on on the last track, "I Knew I'd Want You (unreleased Clark outtake)"? As best I can figure, it's Roger on banjo or possibly high up on the dobro? Chris on bass, Gene or Michael on tambourine and David and Gene on vocals. Question is, is this a legit Preflyte outtake? Personally, I'd place it there, but again I want to reach out to you experts to answer this one. I'd post a Youtube vid, but for the life of me I can't find one, so hopefully someone here knows what track I'm talking about. Cheers.
Interesting post @zobalob, and happy Thanksgiving to you, sir! I have it on good authority that Rog's tech fetish goes way back. In talking to Alan Brackett of the Peanut Butter Conspiracy who was labelmates and shared producers with the Byrds, he told me straight up that Roger had a handheld device and would communicate with them when they were in the studio from out in the streets-- talking 1967 here. I could guess you could say Rog was a walkie-talkie, walkin'-talkin' fool. Cue pedal steel. For real though, I'll give a fast plug to the Peanut Butter Conspiracy, because I'm not sure even the most hardened Byrdmaniax know about them; but this is a band you need to check out. They typically get compared to the Mamas & Papas and the Jefferson Airplane, which makes sense as Spencer Dryden was their original drummer, but to me they have that acid-enhanced, compressed 12-string, Younger Than Yesterday, Gary Usher sound locked in. If you like Jackie D with the Byrds, you should definitely check this out:
Yes to this. I've got some great video I've posted on Youtube of Stills sitting in with the BS Revisited band in '87 going out of his mind on "Bluebird" that I wanted to share here; but ultimately there's no point because people are just going to critique his "standard blues licks" or whatever. Meh.
McGuinn did appear on one track on Live it Up by CSN (1990), but since that project started life as a C&N album but Stills is credited on the track, I have my doubts as if they actually recorded together. Chief, would you know?
The reason is that it is physically impossible to bend a pair of strings and have them sound in tune with one another throughout the string bend (also true for vibrato to a lesser extent). So use of a 12 string as a lead instrument requires either A. Accepting the sound of out of tune pairs of strings in your music, or B. Comittin to playing lead without ever using string bends or vibrato techniques - techniques which are essential to bluesy lead playing. The need for greater precision in picking a 12 string is easily overcome by practicing with the instrument and really no pro would have an issue with it that a week of practice could not overcome. The string bending issue is insurmountable.
I know quite a bit about them. As much as I love Gary Usher, I prefer the slower version of ‘Dark on You Now.’ I think Usher misread that one.
He did a short tour in Northern Europe together with Herb Pedersen and played a stunning set before half full/half empty small auditorium in Gothenburg. Travelling by train, I met them the day after at Gothenburg's Central Station, on their way to Copenhagen.
A great example of 12- string , as lead, is especially evident on the McGuinn - Clark video I posted above , particularly on Eight Miles High towards the very end of the video, where the camera shows some good close ups of Rog’s lead playing in spots.
The Notorious outtake of "Bound to Fall" is a very unusual track. There's three guitars on it (at least), playing in quite intricate counterpoint, and none of them is immediately recognizable as McGuinn. The one on the left, a six-string (sounds like a hollow-body) playing the main melody, could be a McGuinn part, but there's no reason it couldn't be Hillman. The part on the right (wocka-chicka rhythm), I have no idea. The solo part in the middle is also very hard to place; I'm not even sure what kind of guitar it is, though on the fade it does sound a little like a 12-string with McGuinn's timefeel (compare "5D"). Honestly, it doesn't sound like the Byrds at all.
No, Chris had nothing to do with the writing of the song (nor did Stills). It's by Mike Brewer from Brewer & Shipley.
