Cheap Amplifier for Expensive Speakers (modern gear only)

I have a Jolida JD-302B driving a pair of Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers. Not sure what the Jolida sells for these days, but I bought it over 20 years ago used for about $600 and it work great with Vandersteen 1C speakers until I moved the amp to my office. The Pioneers are over achievers in my opinion.

 

Only if the speakers mate well with that amp.

 

I don't really think you can separate the sound of the speakers from the amp or from the room, both have such a profound impact on how the speakers will sound -- can the amp deliver sufficient current demanded by the speakers? Admittedly with most solid state A/B amps today and most hifi speakers, you're not going to run into problems. But a lot of today's speakers dip to low impedances in the upper bass and lower midrange, where there's a lot of musical energy, and a lot of amps, even a lot of A/B solid state amps, might not be the ultimate in current delivery under those conditions (there are a lot of wimpy power supplies out ther), and with tube amps, modern speakers with wildly varying impedances and phase angles over the audible frequency range, fuggedabout, you'll wind up with frequency response modification using a lot of medium and low powered, highish output impedance, low negative feedback tube amps with a lot of these speakers. Similarly room and setup -- in a room without pretty extensive bass treatment, below around 125-250 Hz, you're mostly listening as much to room mode effects and overhanging decay times as to the speakers. Plus, with respect to speaker-boundary interference response, how you place the speakers can result in 30 dB frequency response peaks and troughs. So you can take the same speaker and put it in different locations or different rooms and have it sound quite different. It's not so much that the speakers dictate the sound of a setup -- although there are more gross differences between speakers than between, say, DACs. I think that's too reductive a way of looking at it and doesn't consider that the "sound" of an amp is really the sound of amp-speaker interactions, and the wrong amp can make the system, including the speakers, sound bad; and the "sound" of the speakers is enormously predicated on setup.

 

To the OP, why not sell your £2500 speakers and get some different ones (new or used). Plenty of good used bargains and plenty of good new ones around (say) the £1000 mark e.g. Focal, Monitor Audio, Kef, Fyne. You could then spend more on an amp, so there’s less of a disparity. Rega do nice amps at different price points, as do others. If I was going to do what you plan, I’d probably look for an old, used Arcam (7) or Cyrus amp (6 or 8) and take a chance, if compatible with your speakers.

 

No room treatment or professional set up. It's my living room and has to be shared with Wife and Kids. So location is dictated by aesthetics and practicality. Now maybe when we move...

 

I like my speakers, good sound, clear and smooth and to me they are sculpturally very pleasing. Rega is definitely a possibility though I've been a bit put off by numerous mentions of hum on Brio-R and higher models. I was trying to figure out if it happened more in the US - due to different voltage and frequency - anyone know?

I can't stand any form of hum. I had to get rid of a NAD Silverline Power amp because of hum. An Arcam could be a possibility - any recommendations?

 

I’m using an old Adcom GFA 555 ii with the new JBL L00. The speakers were 4K and I bought the amp used for $450.

It sounds great

 

Alan Shaw, the designer of world renowned loudspeakers has said on several occasions that he used very cheap amps to voice his expensive and award winning speakers. He is on record as saying that the amplifier as long as it was a competent design and working to spec made little to no difference on the design process. He also used a cheap as chips CD player as well. You can look it up on his user group website. So if the amp is so very important and critical how is it that he was able to design such remarkable and pretty much universally loved speakers without using expensive or fancy amps? Think about it.

Something like the Yamaha A-S501 is more than adequate I think.

 

If you are serious about your idea, I think you have to decide your budget and see what’s available in the used (not new) market for it. There are plenty of Arcam amps from different generations on eBay uk from £100 up, for example.

 

If you're still looking, have a look at sites like Emporium Hi Fi, 2ndHandHifi, the rather pricier Jordan Acoustics and Audio Emotion. They all have used gear and your money will go further.

I found this Creek Evolution 50A amp for £650 at Audio Emotion as an example, used to retail for about £1000. They're good guys and been around for years. Here's the link:-

Creek Evolution 50A Integrated with Phono Board | Preowned | Audio Emotion

Personally, I'd suggest you also consider active speakers, which, with the right ones, can give you an enthralling listening experience.

EDIT: if you can stretch to it, they have the Quad Artera Play for £790. Normally £1200, it's just had a killer review in HiFi World and one of their products of 2018. It's in the same preowned section at the above amp on the AE site.

Alternatively, Superfi has £120 off the Onkyo TX-8270 Network Stereo Receiver. Also very much worth considering. £480 from £600.

 

Coz stuff happens I am now using 7000 Pound Sonus- fabers with my sons, kindly donated Pioneer AV amp. It's cool, listening to music is what it's all about.
I am amazed how acceptable it all is.

 

I'm probably running one of the biggest disparities in amp/speaker prices on this forum, and I'm about to move to an even cheaper amp. A nice Conrad-Johnson MF2500 will definitely be a step up from my Jolida 1000p in terms of power and current delivery into 4 ohms, though. I also run hardware store speaker cables that I cut and stripped with a pair of scissors. The only thing I really find offensive about my hi-fi right now is my awful room.

 

I’m always amazed how good my PMC speakers sound with my Pioneer AVR

 

Ive had a lot of amps, to me a gainclone lm3875 SS that costed me 200$ DIY is 95% there.
ive tried lots of class d, and they are cheap but only get me to 80%.

A sony ta 707es recapped will also get you 95% there. Good tube amps will get you 100% there at a much higher cost but will still lose on bass compared to the Sony or LM3875.

I'm really a speaker guy, if you DIY, amps, even a PAss lab amp wont even cost you 1k to build. I cant fathom people paying 5 even 10k for a SS amp.

 

That Adcom was designed by the great Nelson Pass.
You know, Pass Amps?
Pass Amps cost a ton of money but Adcom managed to mass produce his design at a low low cost.
The GFA555 plays in some big leagues along with amps that range up to 30 grand.
You got lucky.
By the way GFA stands for "Great F**kin Amp" this from the mouth of their national sales rep.

 

I also have inexpensive speakers ($585 when I bought them) but they were well-regarded sonically, said to image well, and be easy to drive with low power tube amps. I have found all that to be true. My current pre/processor/amp/cable chain retailed at $6300. I paid $490 for the speakers and $4680 for the other gear (including upgrades / new tubes for the tube amps). I did put in about $100 worth of parts to rebuild the crossovers, excellent investment!

PS: Subwoofer $800 retail / $400 closeout, I think it sounds good.

That said, maybe the speakers are now the weakest link in the system, but I don't care, I like them.

 

While speakers do ultimately decide the sound signature of the overall system.

I agree with you that both SS and tube amps do sound good, when paired with the right speakers.

The beauty about having high sensitivity horn speakers is that you can experience the beauty of a low wattage single ended amp. that would otherwise be lost if you didn't have speakers with high sensitivity.

As far as SS goes, I find that just having any 50-some Watt AV receiver is not going to drive a decent pair of tower speakers in a mid or large room, without having an amp that is on the large size and that has the ability to deliver ample amounts of current.

(With 4-Ohm speakers, this becomes mandatory, not optional.)

I only drive my vintage Klipsch and Altec horn speakers with tube amplification, I drive my modern day towers with SS amps and think that they sound excellent, when driven that way, though their sound signature is different than the horn speakers and tube amps.

 

If you have relatively expensive speakers you like a lot and a much lower priced amp that meets the speakers' power/current requirements and has no characteristics that would not be in harmony with the speakers, it seems to me the speakers and amp will sound as good as the amp allows, just not necessarily up to the potential of the speakers. The chain can only be as strong as its weakest link. That said there are some fairly affordable amps that are quite strong, considering their price. If, for example, you set a price cap of x for the amp, you ought to be able to zero in on the best amp for x that also meets the speakers' demands. However, if that pair of speakers really needs 150 WPC that otherwise wonderful Supernait 3 won't do the trick. My rule of thumb is to have more available power than they say in the specs is recommended, but not to ridiculous levels. I think that rule has been good for me for SS and class D but probably not for tubes paired with highly sensitive speakers.

 

With ss amps once you reach a certain price point they're pretty much all "decent". It comes down to what features, style and flavor of sound you're after. Speakers have a similar point of diminishing returns, but it tends to arrive later than it does for amps.

Tubes amps are different though. With tubes you definitely see big improvement between something like a $1000 tube amp and a $5000 tube amp.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

I am wondering what constitutes “modern” or “cheap”. I have a used ARC D240 that I would feel confident driving just about any speakers I might throw at it. It is an early 90’s SS amp that run about $800 on the street and were $3000 new ( in 1992) . You don’t have to go back to the 70’s to find great used deals, the best deals are quality gear from the last couple decades.

Parasound A23’s can be bought at a great price and are very decent and should be able to drive the RS4’s. I had a pair of Ref Std 1.5’s back in the day ( that I LOVED) that were notorious to drive so I understand the dilemma.

 

It is difficult to generalize because it does depend on specific circumstances. As usual, Chervokas gav a very good explanation of the matter. A lot depends on how easy the speaker is to drive. Speakers have to match the room and the amplifier of choice. It matters a lot whether or not a speaker can be placed in an optimal location, if not, one should be looking at designs that are best suited to where the speakers must be set up (e.g., speakers meant for corner locations, like Audio Note, if that is where they must be). The amp, regardless of cost, has to be able to drive the speaker, and this isn't just a matter of power, but also the nature of the load the speaker presents to the amp and the way the amp behaves in the particular situation. For example, I've heard BBC LS3/5A speakers, which are extremely inefficient, work very well with low-powered tube amps because the amps were well suited to the 15 ohm impedance of these speakers.

I've heard some interesting demonstrations involving some fairly exotic amps that were driving comparatively modest speakers. It was quite easy to hear the differences in the amps. In other words the amps mattered a lot. That is not to say one should emphasize the importance of amps and spend more there, but, it does show that it is wrong to assume that amps don't matter with more modest speakers.

Someone above mentioned Alan Shaw's comments about being able to use any amp that is competently designed with good speakers. I don't think that is the case, and speakers that he build are particularly good at illustrating the point. I've heard both the Harbeth 40.2 and the SLH5+ speakers with a number of amps, and they can sound very good, but, only with the right amps. From a marketing perspective, it makes sense for a speaker manufacturer to say "buy the best speaker you can afford and skimp on the rest," but that compromise what the speakers themselves can deliver.

 

i'm driving Tannoy XT-8Fs with an A-S500 that cost me £100 used (same as the 501, i think, except no DAC). It was only to be a stop-gap but it does such a good job that I'm only going to upgrade when I've got cash for something much, much more expensive

 

What are the electrical requirements required to properly drive the speaker in question?
Price shouldn’t be a that much of a factor unless very specific requirements exist.
There are probably many amps that will work but I would think the better and more synergistic the match, the better the sound results should be. I concur, choose speakers first and then compatible driving electronics.

 

A cheap amp that sounds quite good is a used Marantz NR103 with 50 watts per channel & new enough to not need a rebuild- $100. But, no phono amp.