Classic Records - Frank Zappa - Hot Rats on vinyl! *

I do. Just got the 150 g, played it twice and am... perplexed! Glad I paid only 23$US for it (over-the-counter). If you don't own a decent copy of the original Bizarre, I guess you should get this Classic (at a low price IMO), unless you know of a very good vintage store in your area that don't ask too much for a NM Bizarre HR in 2009... and are wild about original packaging and cover printing quality that don't make you squint...

I am actually impressed that Bernie Grundman seems to have frowned so much over respecting the sound of the original master, including gain! To sum up my impressions about the mastering, when I first played this new one, I was feeling as if I was spinning the same record I spun dozens of time since I got my first 1A/1B original Bizarre in 2002!

Now my new copy is not perfectly flat, though I couldn't see this when I first took it out. The thick paper inner sleeve (with Bizarre and Straight co-founder Herb Cohen completely blurred out of his position on the photo, standing behind Zappa!) seems to leave off residues that are a PITA to brush off with the Audioquest carbon fiber brush... And that vinyl compound is a little noisy (no scratches), which is most apparent in the post-intro silence break during It Must Be A Camel... I still need to give the Lp a cleaning session (then of course store it in a good sleeve), but I am sure this noise floor won't go away.

I'd love to hear from those of you who own both 150 g and 200 g versions - or both such versions of anything else in fact - with regard to the VTA factor that MIGHT account for any difference in playback and audio perception... Because I figure a 200 g LP is not only heavier but thicker, right? Maybe this is why some of the fans whom bought the 200 g got such a positive shock, and I didn't...

 

Glad to see someone shares my opinion about a re-issue title. My buddy brought his Classic over and both of us preferred my Blue Label for the reasons you mention. The music on the original flows with life and a sense of involvement that the reissue cant match, the highs are a good bit smoother, and there is an overall richness to the sound. The Classic has its virtues, very good detail, and bass tightness another pointed out. The Classic is good, but there is a price to be paid for all this tightness, detail and top end extension IMO. Im glad that Classic is doing these titles, as good originals are getting harder to find in general. However, if you have a good sounding original, it has been my experience that its typically the way to go. I am bummed that vinyl condition still seems to be an issue based on some of the posts, I thought that was under control.

 

Well I received my 150 gram copy and it was off center, warped and had a nice paper scuff across track one that was audible between songs. Other than that I liked what I heard very much except for Little Umbrellas.
My original US Bizarre absolutely killed the Classic on this song. Acoustic bass was up front and in your face, which really gives this song its charm but the Classic seemed subdued overall as if Bernie was more concerned with volume levels matching with the rest of the album or something.

This is just my first impression as I've sent the 150 gram back for an upgrade to a 200 gram.

 

Hi Bitbanger- Let us know how the 200g pressing stacks up. Im thinking about Who Are You on 200g and this would influence my decision.

Thanks

 

Received the 200 gram replacement and I have no complaints. It's not warped, not off center and no pops or scuffs.
Oh, and it came with a free Peaches en Regalia/ Little Umbrellas single!

Just kidding. It's been on my want list for 40 years! Anybody ever seen one?

 

The 150 gram version doesn´t use the classic super vinyl profile, QUIEX-SV-P. I have a few 150 gram classics and many more 200 gram and the 200 gram are always much better regarding the quality/quietness of the vinyl. And of course sound much better.

I recommend always buy the 200 gram version of any classic title rather than 150 gram version. My 200 gram copy of Hot Rats is spotless, perfect, centered and plays without any pops or any surface sound at all. I am very pleased.

Also all the 150 grams I have did come in a plain white paper sleeve, which causes scuffs on the vinyl. The 200 grams come in a polylined sleeve. How were your 150 grams sleeves?

 

It's a thick paper stock Bizarre original inner sleeve semi-reproduction (Herb Cohen blotted out) job, and it did leave scuffs, but I would not mind these since they do not seem to affect play.

I didn't know about what you wrote re. the quality of vinyl, etc. of the 200 g versions. All I seemed to recall was that there had been lots of moaning about these vs. the 180 g, but I can't say if this was related to Classic or to some other record company... So I avoided the 200 g for that reason, and the 150 g was a lot cheaper on Record Shop Day!...

Do ALL Classics come from USA pressing plants?

Thanks for your comment.

 

The 200g version also comes with a replica of the original inner sleeve, but the vinyl comes in a polylined sleeve like it should.

Regarding the quality of classic´s 200g vinyl, there sure was a lot of moaning about the 200g not being as good as the 180g. I have one 180g and many 200g and the 180g is I think in no way superior to the 200g regarding sound quality and the vinyl quality is about the same, top notch. All the 200g I have bought from classic have been perfect, so I am not one of those that have gotten bad pressings, but there seems to be many that have but I do believe classic is trying to tackle this issue. The new pressings that say "hand-made" on the 200g sticker I think are really good, perhaps better than previous. But of course all this is just based on my experience. Others may not have had as good experience.

The 200g vinyl comes from a pressing plant classic has in L.A. I do not know for sure where they press the 150g vinyl but I suspect they are pressed at RTI, but again, I do not know for sure. Their earlier 180g and 200g were pressed at RTI.

 

Here is the lowdown on Classic's efforts to up the quality of the 200 gram pressings and vinyl formulation. Its an interesting read.

 

You forgot the link, I think. Was this it?

http://www.classicrecords.com/blog/index.cfm?archiveyear=2008&archivemonth=9

 

Hey thanks for this: some great reading (to do)!

 

My 200g copy of this LP is flat, shiny and free of any flaws. It plays quietly. I always opt for the heavier Classic Records vinyl and have rarely had any QC problems with their 200g LPs.

This is a fantastic album. I can't believe I've never heard it before...

 

If the 200g is so consistently fine, and the 150g is so routinely flawed, why do they even bother with a 2-tiered product offering?... esp with a lousy $6 difference?

I always opt for cheap, but for $24 I expect "fine".

Jeez, I bought a "fine" copy for $4 in 1969.

 

Yeah, but 4 dollars in 1969 is probably
the equivalent of 50 bucks in todays market.

 

>If the 200g is so consistently fine, and the 150g is so routinely flawed, why do they even bother with a 2-tiered product offering?... esp with a lousy $6 difference?<

This is exactly what I was wondering about...

 

It is strange, especially since they do not offer the 150g discs on nearly all their releases. For most releases they only offer 200g.

 

Whoops, thanks.

 

If I have a good shape original of something I dont get a reissue. The guys that worked at Orpheus records were Zappa fanatics, each with over 200 zappa records, I wonder how they feel about this reissue. I only have a few things by Zappa and I know Hot rats is not the easiest to find on vinyl which is why I got the classic. I had never heard this record until I got the classic. I don't know what this album is like, only that I noticed a somewhat artificial and flat quality to the music on the reissue, I can still appreciate the work and figure this is going to be a better choice than the cd of it.

 

The CD, given its harsh sonics, is for the die-hard fans of HR only. You can see by my comment that I have both the original Bizarre record and the 150g reissue, and I find that the differences between the two are of the subtle domain.

 

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the Old Masters LP to any of the Classic Records ones? I have the Old Masters version (near mint, no less) and I am wondering if I really need an upgrade or not.

Of course, the ZFT may release the "Hot Rats, Project/Object, Audio Documentary" CD anytime within the next five years, so....

 

I have never heard it, but here is what's on the Zappa patio page

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/hotrats.html#oldmasters

:

>> Since the CD is remixed, and longer, what's the Old Masters LP like? Good question; not much answered yet. From Bermuda:

It is basically the same mix as the original LP, which I hugely prefer to the ... CD remix version.

Phillip Jacobi takes us home (sadly, he does not win the Porsche)

I put it on my trusty turntable, and I can confirm that it sounds much like the original LP that we all know and love. Notes
inside the gatefold mention that it is digitally remastered, and I'm not totally sure, but I think it's close to, if not the exact same
thing sound wise...[also] there seems to be a lack of digital reverb.

Intriguingly, this means that there's a digital transfer of the vinyl mix sitting in the Vault somewhere... <<

Would this be the same one then, i.e. as the Bernie Grundman one? You bring up an interesting topic!

 

I would agree. I find the original Bizarre to be a bit punchier, and the Classic 180g to be a bit more compressed (not in a bad way), and a bit more full sounding. The liner notes of the Classic release indicate an analog chain from the original master tapes. I think they did a pretty good job on it.

I can listen through both LPs from start to finish and have a smiler on my face. I can no longer stand the remixed Ryko CD although it was my first exposure to the album and I did listen to it quite a bit before I acquired the LP.

 

Our daughter's first and thorough exposure to it - she's 22, into "non-vinyl music", and likes this album very much - is the CD version, and she can't stand how the LPs sound! (Go figure :O))

The unedited tenor sax solo in The Gumbo Variations certainly redeems its sins for me!

 

I am quite familiar with the Zappa Patio. I am acquainted with the guy who runs it currently and have contributed to it a few times myself.

In fact, very little is known about the Old Masters pressings, so I sent him needle drops of Box 2, which is the one that I own. He has not had much time to update those pages, though.

The Old Masters version is the same mix as all other vinyl versions. I am actually more concerned with the sound quality. The Old Masters LP was created in the mid-80s and was a digital remaster. I do not know what the whole Bernie Grundman process is, but it is possible that the Classic Records version sounds better than the Old Masters version, although I can atest that the Old Masters version sounds great.

 

I like the CD mix of "Peaches" better and it's also good that it eliminates the background violin leakage whine throughout the "Willie" guitar solo.