Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #27)

Listening to Bruckner Symphony No.7 / Yakov Kreizberg.

Perhaps one of you could help me. I don't "get" Bruckner. Many people think this is a great piece of music - it was played by the BPO at the end of WW2. But to me it sounds trite and obvious; more Dvorak than Mahler. I do not understand its greatness. I am sure the problem is with me, rather than the music. Are there any Bruckner fans here?

 

I didn't get Bruckner either, that is, not until I heard Celibidache's set on EMI. Now I looooooove Bruckner.

EDIT - This is a perfect example of my earlier point with regards to the importance of the performance.

 

Bach Cantatas

What's the consensus on these pieces? Over the years I've picked up a bunch of individual performances... Some of the classic era ones, and then a smattering of more modern like Herreweghe and Gardiner. But I just saw a site offering the Rilling Complete Cantata 71 disc Box set for $75 and I'm tempted. In general I'm not that affected by monetary considerations but it is tempting... Has anyone bought it and done any comparisons? I realize that it's modern instrument, but I'm more concerned about the quality of the performances.

 

The little of Rilling I've heard suggests a good mainstream approach. Things should be tidier than in the old Harnoncourt series. I've heard lots of Bach's Cantatas. For those who love Bach's vocal textures, they are about as important as anything else the German master wrote.

 

I got the Bach Sacred Vocal set by Gardiner and feel I have enough vocal Bach, lovely as it is I am not moved to get more.

 

Kreizberg is usually reliable. In any case - I also have versions by Furtwangler and Keilberth. Not Celibidache though. I will hunt that one down and see if it appeals.

I am somewhat of a Bach enthusiast. I have complete Cantata collections by Karl Richter, Harnoncourt / Leonhardt, and Gardiner. I also have a few individual discs by Rilling, Masaki Suzuki, Munchinger, and maybe a few others. The Rilling set has been on my "must obtain" list for some time now.

I really rate the Rilling. His set was completed around the same time as the Harnoncourt. The Harnoncourt is a much more historically informed performance - he uses period instruments, small choirs, avoids vibrato, and he conducts in a rigid, almost academic way. You may think this would result in a boring work - but the cantatas are full of life and not lacking in drama and intensity.

Rilling uses modern instruments, but his conducting is so clean and transparent that he sounds as if he is using period instruments (see Karl Richter as a contrast). One of the highlights is the choir - they are simply magnificent! Rich, textured, and disciplined.

The sound quality from these discs is superb as well - one of the best analogue transfers you will ever hear. The Harnoncourt by contrast, sounds a little bit flat. Although if you hear the Harnoncourt in isolation it is pretty good. Both are miles ahead of the Richter which is showing its age.

 

Dvorak is "trite and obvious"?!? To each their own...
But seriously, Bruckner inhabits a world all his own, and to try to make comparisons is ultimately not that helpful. It's also true that in many hands the music does seem overlong and repetitive. But can't those arguments also be made about Mahler? I think for a long time I didn't 'get' Bruckner, and then it just clicked... So maybe it's something to revisit at another time? And while I know nothing of the performance you're listening to, to me, Bruckner is one of those composers where you really have to listen to performances by people who've lived with this music and understood it at a deep level for it to make sense. To say that a performance of Bruckner is going to follow the printed page will undoubtedly miss the mark. Much of this music resides in long arcs and how those are connected and interrelated, so it really requires a master to perform or else it sounds completely episodic. But a great performance will ultimately communicate a spiritual message, and that's what makes the music special. Think of it as medieval sacred music brought into the romantic era, and as the launching pad for Mahler... My 2¢!

 

Try listening to more organ music and then you will start to appreciate Bruckner. Trust me on this even though it sounds crazy. Read about his musical background and it will become clear.

PS- I am not a huge Bruckner fan.

 

Thank you, mkolesa and RR Bear. I will do a bit more study then come back to the Bruckner. BTW Bear, I do listen to a lot of organ music ... I do not see the connection but maybe it will become obvious

 

That's exactly what I would call Celibidache's Bruckner, spiritual. It's a powerful, deeply moving experience.

 

Get some of Gunter Wand and Karl Bohm's Bruckner. The textures and organistic sonorities of his music will come clear upon hearing these conductors.

 

Right now...

Maurice Ravel
Complete Piano Music
Robert Casadesus, piano
with the Philadelphia Orchestra
Eugene Ormandy
Zino Francescatti
Gaby Casadesus
(20-bit remaster from mono tapes spanning 1949 to 1957)

 

Oh yeah! A beauty.

 

Definitely!

One of those must-have historical piano releases.

 

For what its worth, I frequently see mentions of remastering status and quality in classical reviews in specialist magazines, record guides, and web sites. I agree with you, I think remastering is generally perceived to be a good thing in the world of the average classical consumer.

Note: we are not the average consumer...

 

So true...

 

Listening to the Byron Janis SACD of the Rach 3rd right now. This thing sounds incredible. I want more!

I have every Living Presence SACD except the firebird (want it badly but can not make myself pony up the $$$... yet), i have all the Living Stereo SACDs. I have a few Pentatones.

What other SACDs of vintage classical recordings are worth looking into... without getting into Esoteric or $60 SHM-SACD? Were there any other catalog re-issue efforts by the major labels?

Or do you guys think the $60ish SACDs are worth getting into?

I know this ship has already sailed (sunk?) but the sound is just so great, I am going to get what I can while I can...

I'm listening on a McIntosh/B&W rig, so not high-end but a nice sounding system.

 

Janos seems to be a bit of an overlooked monster of an artist. The guy was pretty awsome by any measure. I was listening to that very SACD along side the Wild CD of Rach's 3rd all week before going to see my hero Yuja play it at the Hollywood bowl. HUGE difference. Janos was head and shoulders above Wild on that most difficult piece of music. I would not be surprised if it tops all other recorded versions. That dude was phenomenal.

 

Indeed.

IMO, it does: The Rachmaninonov Piano Concerto Review Project

 

No problems. Two or three years ago, I was not aware of Mark Obert-Thorn and Ward Marston and the great works they have been doing to bring back great historical performances to the average listener. You deserve all the credits for helping me build up a pretty sizable historical recordings collection.

 

I bought the recent Sony release of Rilling's 10-CD set titled "Great Sacred Choral Works" - an all Bach set. The set features some outstanding vocalists from the 60's and 70's while the interpretation and performance were pretty mainstream as Robin has already commented. I am not religious when it comes to Bach choral works even though I clearly prefer the HIP approach in recent years ...

 

Now playing CD2 from this set, which just arrived yesterday from my favorite Amazon MP vendor for a first listen. CD1 was excellent IMO ...

 

What a great disc. I just played it a few days ago.

 

RRB, Do you have the set? I think the CD's in this set can be purchased individually but I bought the 3-CD set.

 

I have the set. Beautiful stuff.