Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #5)

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the versions you heard, Stuart.

 

A wise move!

 

It seems funny to complain about this problem on this forum, of all places, but indeed it is a problem on some classical discs. I remember reading a long time ago that one of the problems with early digital recordings was excessive dynamic range, due to the engineer "showing off", or trying to use the medium to the maximum of its specification, or whatever. However, I would have to say I have only heard it on modern recordings, from the last five years or so. I put it down to trying to sound spectacular, at the expense of musicality, like pumped up volume and cranked bass and treble on modern rock CD's.

 

Some thoughts I have on this topic:

1. Modern recording techniques are capable of a wider dynamic range than older recordings.

2. Live recordings are more susceptible to this issue, as the environment is not as controlled as a recording studio, plus it was not necessarily intended to use for recording.

3. If this phenomenon is not artificial, then one would experience something similar in the concert hall. Has anyone here experienced this in an actual live concert?

4. Modern and especially Romantic Classical music has the widest dynamic range in the Classical canon. Perhaps Rostropovich interprets the score in a more extreme fashion with respect to dynamics.

 

Stuart I have this set. The sound varies but it 's always acceptable.

There are some great recordings there such as the 1963 Paris Schubert (Piano Sonata in A, D.664 and the Fantasy) and the 1980 'Trout' with the Borodin Quartet.

 

1. True, but CD Audio is capable of the same dynamic range it was in the early 80's. It has always had the ability to range from near inaudible to extremely loud.

2. True. Is that LSO disc recorded in a studio?

3. I have not experienced it at a live concert, which is why I think it is "incorrect" for it to be like this on CD. Mind you I've never sat up the back at a classical concert. Perhaps individual instruments soloing are inaudible from the back stalls

4. Perhaps. I think it's more likely to be a matter of sound engineering though.

 

If by excessive dynamics we mean barely audible soft passages and very disturbing loud passages, no, I 've never experienced this in an auditorium.

Also I don't recall any cds that I own where this phenomenon apperas.

 

Is the aforementioned Rostropovich LSO the one that he conducts Shostakovich 8? I don't have it, but I was thinking of getting this soon.

 

I need to listen to the Kreizberg Shostakovich 5 again. This performance actually actually reminds me a lot of the Rostropovich one. I've also heard the late 70's Bernstein, which is a very different interpretation. Now playing (recorded 2006):

 

Nope, Shostakovich 5.

 

Yeah I have some of these LSO discs and I have to admit that they do not have the best sound. Here is a comment on Shostakovitch 5 from an amazon reviewer.

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...ing=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addOneStar

 

1. Oh, OK, then it can't be that then.

2. Yes, a live performance at the Barbican, London.

3. I am confused. If you haven't heard it live, why would you think the CD was incorrect? My experience in halls has been pretty much what you describe about the Rostropovich recording, extreme dynamic shifts and very quiet passages. Sure, it may not mean that you should like it, but I don't think it means that anything has been done dynamically to the recording. I would be very upset to find out if that was the case, actually. I would imagine Rostropovich would be as well (if he were alive.) Imagine all those hours of rehearsing, studying the score, choosing your dynamic interpretation, only to have some engineer decide it needs more punch.

4. From my experience of listening to multiple recordings of the same work, say the Beethoven sonatas, I have seen very different results with regard to interpretations of dynamic markings on the score. These markings are usually no more descriptive than "loud," "very loud" or "soft," words that are very much open to interpretation by the performer. As I have said before in our conversations, once a work is interpreted by a performer and recorded onto tape, to mess with that is creating a new interpretation, one that the performer didn't choose. Then to release the CD with the performers name on it would be incredibly wrong.

 

Interesting. I actually thought the sound was quite good apart from the dynamics. I almost wish I hadn't sold that disc so I could listen again

Hmmm this Kreizberg really is excellent. Dramatic, tempo sounds just about spot on. Great PentaTone sound, including sensible dynamics!

 

I haven't heard this work live, and obviously not this particular performance of it

What I was getting at is that I have attended several classical concerts, and never experienced a situation where it ranged from too quiet to too loud.

 

I've heard good things about that one. if I was in the market for another No. 5 I would grab it. I really like the Kondrashin cycle, sound issues aside.

I can't explain why, but sound quality only becomes a big concern for me in cases where the same performance was released more than once. If the only available recording of an incredible performance is a transfer of a noisy old 78, then so be it. I'll take Cortot's Chopin over Theraud or Pollini anyday.

 

Pentatone, soundwise, rocks!

As for the LSO discs two of my worst sounding SACDs are:

Shostakovich 1/5 with Kurt Masur

and

Sibelius 2/7 with Paavo Berglund. And the problem that I have with the sound is exactly the same with what the amazon reviewer describes. Dry as a bone.

 

Right, so therefore it would be hard to say one way or another how it should sound, right? Unless I am missing something here.

As you said earlier, this can vary as to where you sit in the hall. I agree with this, myself I like to be close to the action. The music is another huge factor. For example, Bach or Mozart's dynamic range and Rachmaninov's or Tchaikovsky's are two different things altogether.

The more I think about this, the more I think if it's due to the engineers, it's from poor reproduction of the performance, not enough mikes, etc. Perhaps I am an optimist when it comes to this, but it scares me to think that classical music is being doctored in this way.

 

It also depends on the hall. There are halls that have such amazing acoustics that even a 20,000 home system can never compete with.

 

The playing of Schubert D960 by Vladimir Horowitz was just beautiful. The first movement - Molto moderato was played with such precision and agility that belied his 83 years (piece was recorded in 86, just 3 years before his death). The remaining movements were very well played as well, very lyrical.

 

Yeah, I'm not a sound engineer, nor a classical musician/conductor, so I don't know mate. All I know is I hate having to keep adjusting the volume during a classical work, and I have never experienced the phenomenon in a live setting, so something seems wrong to me. Take this PentaTone Shostakovich 5. I now have the early part of the 3rd Largo movement on. This was the section I could barely hear on the Rostropovich, and it goes for several minutes. The PentaTone disc is quiet, but still perfectly audible. I feel no need to reach for the volume control. The loud parts earlier on were forceful, dramatic, exciting, but not painful. It just seems to me this is the way it should be.

 

Gotcha! I now must listen to my Rostropovich CD to see what you mean.

In fact, I just put it on and already I hear what you mean. After the opening gestures, the music gets very quiet. I bet they didn't use enough microphones on this (which are clearly distant already) and therefore can't pick up those ppp (very soft) passages. This still doesn't explain why the loud would be too loud though. Hmm.

I'm on headphones, since my girlfriend is watching TV. (Gossip Girl)

 

Try turning the volume up to where you think those quietest parts of the Largo should be (ie, soft, but perfectly audible). Listen to the last minute or so of that movement, then tell me how loud the start of the 4th is...

 

Just got back from the store with the Haitink. They didn't have the Rostropovich so I'll have to order it. I read that amazon review linked above, but there are about 10 reviews with an opposite, positive stance on the sound quality, plus you guys.

 

Will do. I already hear some of the extremes you describe in the first movement, although for now they are tolerable. I haven't touched the volume yet, I'm gonna try not to touch it as long as I can.

 

Shostakovich 5 & 9 on this PentaTone disc are the only symphonies I have. What should I get next - I was thinking No. 7 "Leningrad"?