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Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #51)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Nov 3, 2013.

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  1. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    There's a lot of similarity to our positions, 5-string, but as I approach my own end, I am trying to broaden my own classical music horizons. For the past year, I have been aggressively approaching new, to me, composers — of course, there are some whom I will never appreciate — with an eye toward hearing something I hadn't already since I bought my first classical record in 1959. I have, for example, a new-found enjoyment of Copland and Ives, and I've taken to lifting my ban on a few other early 20th century composers. Along the way, I rekindled my deep love of the 4 Bs, Mozart and many of the Russians. Along with my goal of listening to all 3000+ CDs and LPs, I determined that I would look into the possibility that SACDs may actually offer more realistic sound. With this in mind, I have $pent several thousands on what have generally been a disappointment with these new SACDs.

    I wouldn't necessarily agree that these new releases aren't up to par, though I would agree with anyone who thought Gergiev was overrated. The sound wouldn't be what I would call bad on many, but it is obvious that there is a different philosophy on recording techniques, and the natural perspective on these is severely diminished. All this has led to a return to older recordings such as the Zacharias Mozart PCs, not that these are vintage. I'll have to complete this in another post in a few days as I have to go.
     
  2. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    interesting analogy.
     
  3. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Boccherini, Balakirev, Busoni, and Boismontier? ;)
     
  4. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Good points.

    I don't know if you are familiar with the Northern Flowers label, but they have an excellent series called "Wartime Music", already at vol 16, with less known Russian composers of the first half of the 20th c. Some of the composers that appear in the series are Miaskovsky, Scherbachov, Popov, Mossolov, Yevlakhov et al. Definitely worthy of checking out, especially If you like Russian music.

    http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/llf/-/Wartime+Music/1

    About the sound quality of SACDs, I have found that the ones that are well recorded and mastered offer an improvement from CDs but I have difficulty in describing the exact level of improvement. To me they sound more alive and real, but I know that this is very subjective and doesn't get us anywhere. That being said, in my world, vinyl is still the king in terms of soundstage, tonal balance and overall sound quality.


    PS. I agree that Gergiev is very overrated.
     
  5. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
  6. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    This one is excellent, but not one of the 4 Bs. My association with the label, BTW, goes back 3 decades.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
  8. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
  9. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    I have all of Fischer's Mahler so far, and except for the 6th which is a little unconventional (about which I haven't made up my mind yet) they are simply outstanding. The 5th (not yet officially available in the US) is getting rave reviews. Despite the impressive reviews for his Brahms #1 and Schubert #9 I couldn't warm to either of them.
     
  10. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    I would like to find a modern, preferably SACD, recording of the Schubert 9th that could supplant my old favorites, but, alas, I, too found the Fischer decidedly weak. Both Kertsz and Krips benefit the work much more IMO.

    I would like to know if anyone here has gotten into the Adam Fischer Mozart symphony recordings. A very few of them have received excellent reviews, but, for the most part they appear to have been ignored. All dozen or so releases have this same photo:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Munch/Boston has a very powerful Great C major on SACD, albeit over 50 years old. Roy Goodman/Hanover Band is relatively recent and really fine.
     
  12. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I know you are not the biggest fan of the Living Stereo SACD series, but Munch's high energy performance of the Schubert knocked my socks off.

    (I see Robin has already commented.)
     
  13. WHitese

    WHitese Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Bergen, NJ
    Sipping coffee and listening to this nice CD....its a nice evening...if only my cat would come on my lap for a nap.

    [​IMG]
     
    Robin L likes this.
  14. spock2

    spock2 New Member

    Location:
    New York
    any opinions on blu ray audio. this seems new to me. have not heard of this prior to a few weeks ago. I am pretty much sold on the idea that sacd is better than regular cd, so i am open to the idea of better formats. so how does blu-ray compare. has anyone listened. kind of pricey at $30 per.

    here is the copy from elusive disc for the Janine jansen four seasons:

    Blu-Ray Pure Audio Disc!
    24bit/96 khz High Fidelity Audiophile Sound: No Compression. No Compromise! 2.0 DTS, Dolby TruHD and PCM Audio Formats!


    Audio-Only Blu-Ray! Plays on Blu-Ray Compatible Players ONLY!

    Accomplished violinist Janine Jansen performs Vivaldi's The Four Seasons.

    Music, at last, has a high quality audio format, a must-have for any connoisseur of high quality audio.

    Audio is taken from the original master tapes and delivered in 24bit/96 khz with 3 choices of sound format: PSM, Dolby True HD or DTS - enjoy music as it was meant to be heard in the studio.

    No Compression - No Compromise:
    Compare to CD Format:
    CD Duration: 72 minutes
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Duration: 7 hours +

    CD Capacity: .65 Gigabytes
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Capacity: 50 Gigabytes

    CD Format: PCM Limited to 44.1 khz 2.0
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Format: HD Formats 2.1 / 5.1; PCM Non-Compressed; DTS HD Master Audio; Dolby True HD

    CD Sampling Frequency: 44.1 kHz, Limited to 44.100 information per second
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Frequency: 96 kHz to 192 kHz, 96.000 mini information per second

    CD Bit Value: 16 bits = 65,536 possible values
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Value: 24 bits = 16,777,216 possible values

    CD Dynamic: 96 Decibels
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Dynamic: 144 Decibels

    CD Bitrate: 1.5 Megabits/sec
    High Fidelity Pure Audio Bitrate: 21.5 Megabits/sec
     
  15. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    It is amazing how mediocre most recordings are of the Schubert Symphonies. Most of my LPs are recordings from the 50s and early 60s too. I am not the most knowledgeable about CD versions but for FWIW you might take a listen to the short set done by Vegh and his Salzburg Camerata Academica. Sinopoli also did an interesting version of 9 at Dresden. As for SACDs the only other one I'm aware of is the Wand but I believe it a DSD remaster not original. I am neutral on him but this sounded like a more routine effort from him. YMMV
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  16. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    No clue. I have a good number of SACD's and they are good enough for me. I have a BR external drive that I can use with my computers but that is meant only to be used for movies.
     
  17. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    The Schubert Symphonies by Nikolaus Harnoncourt is the best set out there IMO ...
     
  18. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    How is this different from DVD, DVD-A etc.? I think BluRay does permit 24/192 FWIW. I've heard 24/96 in the recording studio and was not overly impressed. It does sound smoother than CD but still quite digital in character IMO.
     
  19. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    From what I have read so far, some of the latest external DAC's can do wonder to some of the older CD's.
     
    sgb likes this.
  20. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I've read all kinds of amazing things about sonics. Beats listening any day of the week.
     
    sgb likes this.
  21. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    There's a Blu-Ray audio thread that you should check out. Most of the commentary is on non-classical, but it is still informative. Reviews overall have not been so good. Many of the releases appear to be the same masterings as UME used for its SACDs and DVD-As (and most of the classical titles were issued in one of those formats). Now UME is asking more money for the same thing.

    In my case I was looking at one of the few that could be called a bargain - the Ella Fitzgerald/Louis Armstrong recordings. In effect three LPs on one disc. However, the reports on SQ were less than wonderful, so I passed. (I have AP releases covering most of the tracks.)
     
  22. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    QM.jpg

    This arrived yesterday!! Beautiful packaging, very tastefully done. Cardboard sleeves big enough to easily remove CDs. And a 100 page booklet!

    Best price I found (and my package came in a sturdy box with bubble wrap inside) was $45.96 shipped from MDT. It's like 50 cents more now: http://www.mdt.co.uk/haydn-quartets-quatuor-mosaiques-naive-10cds.html BUT it looks like it's not in stock (says shipped in 2 weeks.) :sigh:
     
    RiRiIII likes this.
  23. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
  24. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    I've had it on original vinyl for 30+ years. It's not that I dislike them, John, I just don't think they're all they're cracked up to be. I scrambled to re-buy TWO conventional CDs after I determined that even the CD layers were inferior to the earlier releases. They were Munch's Saint-Saëns, and the Heifetz Sibelius.

    Agreed, but I would add that quality sound adds to enjoyment of music substantially.

    I am not interested in yet another new music format (Blu-Ray), so I'm with others who say SACD gets close enough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  25. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Agree with you on the Saint-Saens. I don't own it on redbook, but the SACD didn't sound right to me. The Sibelius sounded fine to my ears. Again, I don't have the redbook. However, I do like many of the SACDs including Munch/Schubert.
     
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