Cleaning makes my records sound worse and skip!

Say Litejazz, you're becoming quite an analog expert now I see. Not enjoying the beauty of 'crystal clear' digital so much anymore? .

 

Ok, if this is the case, and the slightly hot water and Dawn are not making down into the grooves, but rather simply making the surface of the record shiny, would you not expect to physically see dust and crud on the stylus after a side of the record has been played? In my defense of this cleaning method, I can clean my stylus completely and then immediately play a record I have cleaned as I promote in this thread. When the side is finished play, the stylus is clean, there is no visible debris on it, does that not say something to you? If I take a record out that I have never cleaned and I play it, I do find debris on the stylus after a playing that requires wiping away.

I just cleaned a soundtrack that was my mother's since 1967 (Doctor Zhivago) that she played on her Zenith portable record player that tracked at about 10g many times and she never cleaned anything, ever. This was one of her favorite records and I remember hearing it over and over for years! It took no genius to see this record was dirty, fingerprints, just dirty as people back then were not finicky about record care. I remember she had an old dirty cloth she wiped records off with, if any food got on a record, a 10 year old dirty cloth. Anyway, I carefully cleaned this album in the sink with hotter water and Dawn using the paint brush, exactly as I outlined here in this thread. After playing both sides there were no fibers on my stylus and no crud that I could see with a loop, I must be doing something right, as I can find crud and fibers on most any record I have not cleaned in this way.

 

I can see the benefit to what you are doing in certain circumstances because I've done it myself. It's not going to net the best results on its own though. For extremely filthy records it may work as some sort of pre-cleaning routine. Again, those groove photos don't prove anything. The magnification simply isn't strong enough there. It's like people posting cell phone pics of their styli and asking if they are okay or if they are worn. Well, we don't know - need much higher magnification.

 

Don't you be hurting my feelings now, I have been a record lover since I was 16 years old and am not a part of a new vinyl movement, I'm old school, "the real thing." I'm all about the cleaning, the turntable set ups, the entire never ending experience, but I do love my crystal clear digital as well, we old guys can have it both ways.

 

I absolutely will concede that the magnification is not electron microscope quality, but the results are a quieter record, and no visible lint, hair like debris, or visible anything on my stylus after a play right after the cleaning. If I do not do a two step clean before each playing, I will see something on the stylus, however after this sink cleaning process I see nothing on the stylus at all, this tells me I'm getting something done right, as most any record leaves something on the stylus after a playing. Do I believe Bill Hart's method is superior to mine, it has to be, Bill has some of the finest equipment and record cleaning products known to man. I'm just saying this method seems to be working for me very well and I have never caused any damage to my records that I can see or hear and I have some really old recordings. One of the things that Bill mentioned is so true, do no damage! It appears many people are probably doing damage rubbing stuff into record grooves that drys in there and won't come out.

 

Let me mention something very important as far as I am concerned when it comes to playing a record. Because records just really seem to be dust magnets, I have a ritual I perform before each side is played, it's a three step ritual, but I find it really does keep my records in good clean shape for the long run, where they do not need a complete wet cleaning. This is not a cleaning, it's simply preparing my record to be played, a dust removal process.

To successfully "grab" the dust off an album and not grind it further down in the record is an art, let me share that art with those of you that don't know, when grabbing dust off your album, a very light touch is the key, virtually NO pressure, you want to grab or scoop the dust up and not drive it deeper into the record grooves, and here is what you need and how to do it. First, what you need, and it's CHEAP!


Ok, what am I showing, a nice carbon fiber brush, a tiny fingertip sprayer or "mist sprayer" and a felt type pad.

1. The carbon fiber brush is always used first by gently sitting it on the record as it turns. Let the carbon fiber brush drag for about 3 rotations of the platter and then jerk it up abruptly, DO NOT drag it across the record, worst thing you can do! By jerking it up abruptly you will leave a virtual straight line of dust across the entire surface of the record and I always pull the brush up on a certain spot on the label where I know where that straight dust line is!

2. Step two involves "scooping" that straight line of dust up off the record without grinding it into the grooves, how do I do that? This is where the little fingertip sprayer is used, and why use this exact sprayer, because it literally atomizes the water where all you get is a ultra fine mist of distilled water per spray and that is exactly what you want an atomized mist of distilled water!

3. Now take the little soft pad tool on the right and spray one or two tiny blasts of atomized distilled water on the material which wets it so marginally, you hardly even know it's moist at all, which is exactly what you want, you do not want anything that makes that pad wet to the feel, you just want it barely moist, barely, which is why the small mist sprayer is perfect, as it delivers such a tiny spray of water mist!

4. Touch the edge of that pad to the record as the straight line of dust approaches and it literally "scoops" the dust up, it grabs the dust and pulls it up. You use virtually NO pressure to do this, the edge of the pad touches the record and the moist pad pulls that dirt right off the surface of the record, nothing is ground in or downwards. You can then look at the pad and see a clear straight line of dust that has been picked up, that you can brush off the pad with a small brush, which is not shown in my picture.

Now you are ready to play your record. The entire process takes about 25 seconds! and boy does it work! This is the very best way to keep your stylus clean as a whistle!

 

I just bought this, seems perfect for what I need.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

 

Make a mix of 99% Iso propyl Alcohol, Distilled water, and a wetting agent, then get one of these.......


Actually better get TWO of them.
They MUST be `MOHAIR`, (much softer, and no risk of scratching).
Wipe your record over with a damp cloth, spray on your mix, rub with Mohair pad along the grooves turning the record as you go, one of those circular silver cake holder trays is great for this, wipe with damp cloth, wipe with dry lint free cloth and polish till dry.....goodbye to static, and you have a really deep clean into the grooves.
Don`t need one of those stupid expensive cleaning machines!

 

The issue with these kinds of threads is that you get many suggested solutions, probably all of them effective, but no one definitive answer. I suppose it's in the nature of these kinds of threads. I wonder what the thread starter thinks.

 

I think the answer depends on the question. If the question was, as the OP asked, why- when cleaning in the manner he described he got more noise and problems- he got an answer. If the question is what's the cheapest possible way to clean a record, that may involve a different answer than the most effective. (I think you can have relatively cheap + effective, but it will not be use home cleaning supplies and a cloth in my view). I was an adopter of ultrasonic, not the earliest, but several years ago and while it's great, I don't think it is a complete answer for used records. And, like most topics, a general question - like what's better in the hardware field- is going to generate a lot of different views. No snark intended.

 

Thanks for your reply. I was exceptical when I got it, the concept seems great but its end results are lousy. I aparently peled it off completely but it seems it left some kind of residue on the record's grooves.
I'll try to clean it with MoFi cleaning pad and MoFi One Cleaning Solution that uses to works fine.

 

Oh give me a break. The Spin Clean is fantastic. If you’ve had bad results with one, you used it incorrectly.

 

Ben, I have never used a spin clean at all, I have just not had any need to buy one, but I know people who have, some have good luck, some say the bristles are too loose when they drag the record, some say they are too tight, some say they come out of their slots. Your objective with a spin clean is the same objective I have, to rotate the record with the bristles rubbing in the grooves with a few drops of solution helping the liquid to get into the groves and do the job.

My way is not so different, just 1000 times more robust. I have water crashing in the grooves, then massaged in by a paint brush, rubbing, scrubbing, moving dirt and crud around, breaking everything loose but the label with soap, that cleans and forcefully flushes everything short of tar out. After that, I spray more water under pressure to clean all the "in solution" crud out of the grooves, then go back a second time and forcefully spray distilled water up close in those same grooves to insure they are completely rinsed clean. So while you are gently turning your 3 rotations one way, then 3 rotations another way in a small tank of dead water, I am bombarding my record in a record cleaning hurricane and power wash out with some real purpose. It's just a bit more aggressive that the gentle Spin Clean.

 

My method:


Palmolive Dish Soap.
Warm to Hot, not boiling soapy water.
Rinse, and dry, and let record air dry.
I usually wipe over with designated microfiber cloths.
Job done!
No big bucks spent, 100 percent results.
Been doin this for years (except for the recent 'Groovemaster' accessory')

 

I have always just loved the ole glue method, and some of you folks may not be real familiar with this method of record cleaning, so I am including this video by the professor, which tells you all you need to know about the glue cleaning process, here we go!

 

You seem to be missing out on the finer points of using a record label cover during the cleaning process, which I also do.

I also use clean cotton towels to dry the excess liquid off of the surface. Doing so does not put more crap back into the grooves.

My record label protector is the same, with the exception being that it is not transparent.

However, I am going to try your method with the paintbrush and so on. I have some records which I don’t seem to be able to get completely clean with other methods. Thanks for sharing![/QUOTE]

You can also use a MoFi record cleaning brush, which can be used wet or dry. It is designed to get deep into the record grooves.

Mobile Fidelity: Record Cleaning Brush


With a record label protector on, this brush is the perfect size to cover the entire groove surface of the record, from outer the edge of the label to the lead-in. The brush pads are replaceable.

As @Litejazz53 indicates, cleaning a record is not exactly rocket science and you don't need to spend a lot of money do do so.

I clean my records by hand with distilled water, Triton-X-100 (.3%) and isopropyl alcohol (<10%).

I make a 10% stock solution out of the straight Triton X-100 as it comes in the bottle (about a gallon of 10% stock solution at a time).

When I make up the gallon of record cleaning solution, I remove 11-oz. of the distilled water from a gallon bottle, add in 8-oz. of 70% Isopropyl alcohol and 4-oz. of the Trition X-100 10% stock solution.

Nothing about this is critical, you are just cleaning a record.



After I clean the record by scrubbing with the MoFI brush, I rinse the excess Triton X-100 solution off using the sink sprayer.

The more Triton (or any cleaning agent) that you put on a record, the more that you will have to wash off the record.

Triton X-100 is a surfactant (wetting agent) and also a detergent. You need a surfactant because the surface tension of water is too high to penetrate into the record grooves. It will just bead up on the surface of a record (which is fine after the record has been cleaned).



For this reason, before I put the record in the final distilled water bath, I spray both sides the record off in the sink to get the excess Triton off before I put it in the rinse water, so the Triton does not build up in the rinse water.

(It is just like rinsing off after you soap up in the shower.)

Then I place the record in a distilled water bath.

This insures that only clean, mineral free water is remaining on the surface of the record, when you dry the record. This way, you will not be putting water spots (minerals) on the record's surface.

When you don't see the rainbow effect in the water, like a soap bubble, you know that you have effectively rinsed the detergent/wetting agent off of the surface of the record.

After which, I just put a cotton bath towel down and pat with another one it to absorb the excess moisture and set it up against the sofa cushions. They records are dry in only a few minutes, ready to be put into clean, new record inner sleeves.

Here is a similar cleaning method, as demonstrated by SHF's member @ChrisWiggles video.

Chris does not even bother to use a record label protector, but he cleans all of this thrift store find without one. I tried my not ready for prime play records without a label protector and the came out fine, just like in Chris's video. On my "ebetter" records, I use a label protector.

Chris Comments...

"So I was cleaning a batch of records and just decided to record my incessantly long rambles and illustrate how I clean my records, rather than typing out numerous explanations. I also got a lot of questions about label damage from dunking records, and I get the sense that a lot of people have never actually done so and just assume they are horribly damaged by moisture, so I covered that in detail as well to assure you that no, they basically come out 100% just fine"



The pans that Chris uses are Chicago style deep dish pizza pans, which is what I use (I don't use gloves either).

 

You can also use a MoFi record cleaning brush, which can be used wet or dry. It is designed to get deep into the record grooves.

Mobile Fidelity: Record Cleaning Brush


With a record label protector on, this brush is the perfect size to cover the entire groove surface of the record, from outer the edge of the label to the lead-in. The brush pads are replaceable.

As @Litejazz53 indicates, cleaning a record is not exactly rocket science and you don't need to spend a lot of money do do so.

I clean my records by hand with distilled water, Triton-X-100 (.3%) and isopropyl alcohol (<10%).

I make a 10% stock solution out of the straight Triton X-100 as it comes in the bottle (about a gallon of 10% stock solution at a time).

When I make up the gallon of record cleaning solution, I remove 11-oz. of the distilled water from a gallon bottle, add in 8-oz. of 70% Isopropyl alcohol and 4-oz. of the Trition X-100 10% stock solution.

Nothing about this is critical, you are just cleaning a record.



After I clean the record by scrubbing with the MoFI brush, I rinse the excess Triton X-100 solution off using the sink sprayer.

The more Triton (or any cleaning agent) that you put on a record, the more that you will have to wash off the record.

Triton X-100 is a surfactant (wetting agent) and also a detergent. You need a surfactant because the surface tension of water is too high to penetrate into the record grooves. It will just bead up on the surface of a record (which is fine after the record has been cleaned).



For this reason, before I put the record in the final distilled water bath, I spray both sides the record off in the sink to get the excess Triton off before I put it in the rinse water, so the Triton does not build up in the rinse water.

(It is just like rinsing off after you soap up in the shower.)

Then I place the record in a distilled water bath.

This insures that only clean, mineral free water is remaining on the surface of the record, when you dry the record. This way, you will not be putting water spots (minerals) on the record's surface.

When you don't see the rainbow effect in the water, like a soap bubble, you know that you have effectively rinsed the detergent/wetting agent off of the surface of the record.

After which, I just put a cotton bath towel down and pat with another one it to absorb the excess moisture and set it up against the sofa cushions. They records are dry in only a few minutes, ready to be put into clean, new record inner sleeves.

Here is a similar cleaning method, as demonstrated by SHF's member @ChrisWiggles video.

Chris does not even bother to use a record label protector, but he cleans all of this thrift store find without one. I tried my not ready for prime play records without a label protector and the came out fine, just like in Chris's video. On my "ebetter" records, I use a label protector.

Chris Comments...

"So I was cleaning a batch of records and just decided to record my incessantly long rambles and illustrate how I clean my records, rather than typing out numerous explanations. I also got a lot of questions about label damage from dunking records, and I get the sense that a lot of people have never actually done so and just assume they are horribly damaged by moisture, so I covered that in detail as well to assure you that no, they basically come out 100% just fine"



The pans that Chris uses are Chicago style deep dish pizza pans, which is what I use (I don't use gloves either).[/QUOTE]
Larry, I see you caught the comment about destroying the label, with the label protector screwed down tight, oh my, they know not what they do! I do think you have something good with that record cleaning brush by Mobile Fidelity, it might work as well or better than my paint brush with fine bristles, but my brush is a real keeper, I can scrub the heck out of a record with that brush!

 

The MoFi brush does seem to be a nice brush.

Either way, the important thing is a brush that has fine enough bristles to get deep into the tiny record grooves.

Like your advice, I think the key to getting a record clean is the ability to get deep into the grooves and SCRUB!

Then afterward, a good rinse to get rid of the cleaning agent, then a clear distilled (or similar) water rinse to get rid of the detergent.

A good scrub and a good rinse it all it takes.

 

His records skip more than usual? How much do they usually skip? Not worth cleaning. Or a crappy turntable/stylus may be at fault all along.

 

what did you use brillo? Just kidding! that sucks...

 

Sorry, folks, I was off line for a few days. I see very good suggestions - this forum at its best , but :

I hate to say it, but you probably right. The spectrum of possible types of residues in a record groove is very large. Hence there is likely also no silver bullet!

I have some very nice 50 years old records that I rescued from being thrown away by somebody. Just imagine what can happen during 50 years! Grease would be easy to clean, but if solidifies during summer heat, reaction with other chemicals in the air (smoking cigarettes, burning candles, burning stuff in the kitchen, ......) and perhaps forming a glue with vinyl. Or having solids pushed and wedged into grooves by a high VTF, i.e there are all kind of chemical, physical and mechanical causes that form crud in the grooves. Some you can remove easily, some could come off after vigorous and long careful scrubbing and washing, and some may never come off.

So I bought a good paintbrush (10€ ) and went for it. And I can give credit to your method ! The tested records did improve and are now even more enjoyable to listen to. However, it did not get rid of all noise and ticks, but it is now definitely good enough to keep them playing.

Thanks all for the your tips! I will keep on trying different techniques, when needed.

 

I have not been able to rid myself of every tick and pop on some records either, BUT, I do believe they are very clean, and one way I know is because there is no debris on my stylus after playing the record, after the wet cleaning, and even on a clean record, if not cleaned by my prepare to play method (shown in another post), the stylus does pick up junk. I appreciate your taking a shot and cleaning this way, and remember, scrub, scrub, scrub, and while you are scrubbing one side, make "sure" that other side is sitting on a very sloppy wet surface on the sink towel, you never want anything to dry in the grooves before the final two rinse steps and drying.

 

Since the OP is in Australia, Record Revirginizer, should be much easier to find. I've tried that product and wood glue and I prefer Record Revirginizer over wood glue.

 

Well, since so many people seem to like the Spin Clean, here is a Spin Clean knock off for about $29.00, nice walnut color. I think this little cleaner looks much nicer than the yellow plastic Spin Clean, don't you?

This does not mean I will abandon my aggressive paint brush cleaning, this is just for all you folks that want to rotate records in a little box of still water.

So, here it is!

https://www.amazon.com/Record-Clean...argid=aud-829758849484:pla-452492236797&psc=1

 

Mdf wrapped with a coating....not the best thing to have with lots of water around .