I'd like to move up the Dynaudio line, I have Emit M20 and really like them, but id like something more refined and a better midrange. I've read that Dyns change character from model to model, so I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what models are similar to the M20 but just further developed. They must be stand mounters, no floorstanding. I'll be buying used, so previous models aren't off the table. With the restrictions in place for the foreseeable future, I need your ears and opinions!
I’ve only owned one pair of Dynaudio speakers, my current pair - Evoke 10. I’m interested in learning more about that Dynaudio house sound. I do love my Evoke 10. How would you describe the Emit M20? The Evoke 10 are very musical, with huge soundstage (wide and deep). The imaging is outstanding, and although some call the presentation laid back, I don’t feel I’m missing any detail or extension. The folks calling them laid back probably have metallic, hard, or horn tweeters that would probably annoy me with their aggression. ;-)
I've owned the M10 and now M20. The M10 are an amazing deal, especially used. They soundstage like crazy, best I've ever had actually. Both models are extremely clear, dynamic, and not fatiguing at all. Both are very revealing of changes in gear and of recordings, good and bad. The M20 is a much fuller and more dynamic speaker, it sounds much bigger than the M10. Where the M20 can be improved (for my tastes ofc) is in refinement. It can be aggressive sounding sometimes, and the mids a little hard. For what they sell for, hardly a complaint, I feel both models are one of the best at and above the price.
Interesting thread for me as I currently listen with the Emit M20 and really like them. Amazing speaker for the price, friends and myself love a session with them. If the Evoke were out then I may been tempted in entry level. However at the time I got a great ex-demo price on the Emit 20's but can't help thinking the next jump has to be to the Special 40's. Dynaudio can do no wrong in my ears, fantastic products. The 20's blow me away even now & if that sound is 'unrefined' then my imagination about what a better speaker can do is waiting to be understood. Need to save for this next jump up but excited to upgrade my speakers. You only live once apparently & waiting to afford the step is a great feeling. Addicted.
I just got a pair of Evoke 10 and Stand 10's today. They sound excellent, although my Sony STR-DN1080 surround receiver hardly do them justice. In the past I've owned Dynaudio Excite X32, X14 and Focus 160, and at my dealer's place I've listened to DM 2/7, DM3/7, X12, X16, X34, Contour 3.4 & some of their active speakers. I've also owned some BM5A MKII's btw. - active speakers for music production. IMO it's hard to find bad-sounding Dynaudio speakers. Just give them plenty of power. EDIT: Also got some Emit M10's today which I mean to use as back speakers / surround. Haven't unboxed them yet though.
Just realize I managed to not answer your question at all IMO Dynaudio speakers do not change character between models, on the contrary they all share the same characteristics: A balanced, cohesive sound in which nothing "sticks out" (apart from DM 3/7 which I think has sluggish bass, and perhaps the Contour 3.4 which to me sounded strangely calm / laid back compared to how Dynaudios usually sound). What you get when moving up the range is just a better-sounding balanced, cohesive sound EDIT: You get nice bass with book case Dynaudio speakers too btw., it's sort of their trademark along with the balanced sound. But you need an amp that can give them sufficient power.
Could you speak to your perceived differences between your Evoke's and Excite X14's? I own and love the latter.
Ive owned: Focus 260 Excite x12 Confidence C2 And back 23 years ago, I fell in love with the sound and transparency of the Contour 1.3 mk ii. I have to agree that the house sound of Dyn is present even in the most affordable models. You get more scale, broader response, increased refinement and transparency as you move up the line. They all love current There are anomalies in certain lines (like Focus 260 being more evenly balanced and reaching more deeply than it's bigger brother the 340) Their standmounts are the best bang for the buck and one day I hope to own the new Heritage bookshelves for upstairs.
Everything I read about Dynaudio house sound was right in line with my preferences. I wanted my Evoke 10 so badly that I upgraded my amp from an Onkyo TX-8555 integrated to a Rotel RB-1582 MkII separate. I can actually listen to the Evoke 10 w/out the sub, so that makes late night listening sessions enjoyable. Of course, a little assist from a tight sounding sub goes a long way...
It’s funny you posted this. I am seriously considering adding a pair of Evoke 20’s to my new upstairs small loft system to rotate with my Klipsch RB 5 to use with my Yamaha AS2200 . They seem to possess a really good all around on all types of music while being a solid audiophile speaker.. for the $$! that’s what I am leaning towards if I decide to do it
Go for the Special 40's or the Contour 20's, both are excellent. I auditioned both and picked the Contour 20's because it made my hair stand and its performance ceiling is a notch higher, the S40's are no slouch though. One thing is certain, you won't be disappointed with going up the Dyn line.
It's hard for me to compare them because I used completely different gear with each, so take this comparison with a big grain of salt. But! I do think Evoke 10 sounds a lot more detailled, even without using a dac. They remind me more of the Focus 160 than of the Exite X14. I'm not sure how much this helps, sorry.
I was in similar position. I agree what's said here befpre: the higher up the model range, the broader, deeper and the more emotive the sound will get. There are model ranges and according pricings for a reason. I decided to skip the "middle" models since sooner or later I'd probably fancy some "upgrade" and instead I went all the way to their top-of-the-line model as my end-stop in Confidence C1 Signature (equal to mk II just with a better finish) since it was something that I could afford as used speakers, something that is time-tested and highly appraised/raved by different reviews throughout the years. The Confidence C1 are proven throughout as the exceptionally good speaker, if not one of the best bookshelves that are ever made, even the new Confidence 20 do not "beat" them according to different comparisons I've seen. This all makes the C1 stand out IMHO and I went for them. Never regretted.
Hello to all, has anyone experience with up grade of the entry level Dynaudio crossover? Is it worth the expense?
Interesting use of the (a bit hate or a just biased?) "cheese" word here, especially all by a video of an "expert" trying to market and sell his "improvement" kit. Couple of questions I have: Does the improvement kit, once installed, actually pass an ear test vs the original setting? Does it really improve the sound or if it's another "hot air" "improvement" juding by the measurement instrument only? Nobody has commented on real life A/B testing so far if it improves the sound considerably as the expert claims. Van den Hul Snowline internal wire a poor quality? Not really, it's among the best around. You can argue on Mundorf capacitors, but they are not "poor" quality neither. IMO in the end of the day it all comes down to ear test, why one likes or dislikes a certain speaker.
I like Danny, but this is a very relevant post IMO. I also find it a bit....well...cheesy how he says he "fixes" all these speakers. Although measurements are important and a good start, listening tests are that which has to decide what is an improvement and what is just "change", maybe sometimes even downgrade. When it comes to parts being used - the particular parts are there for a reason. Tim de Paravicini was strongly holding the position that a design that needs unicorn tubes or ultra expensive caps etc. is not a good design. He also used to say that in certain positions certain parts made sense not from the "lowest cost to produce" perspective, but from the perspective that even a lower quality part has a specification it needs to have in that position. Throwing money and expensive parts at it is not something a good engineer would do - TdP's position. I can see a problem in blanket position that a "better part" necessarily makes a better product. A similar thing is there with Danny's approach to speaker cabinets. He always tries to make them more "dead". But some cabinets work with the drivers and the whole design in such a way that they need to be "lossy" or less sonically dead. You can't have a blanket approach - let's make everything as dead as possible and that means we're improving it. Bottom line is - I like Danny, he seems to know what he's doing, but I also see problems with what he does and how he presents it. And also, excuse me, but I tend to believe Dynaudio's engineers and their choices more than - I don't want to be mean but - some guy's from YT. I know he has his own respected firm and everything, but a Dynaudio engineer he ain't. In the end - I'd really really like to hear thoughts from his customers after "upgrades" - especially when it comes to good speakers like Dynaudio special 40s. It's clear that there's a good way to improve crappy entry-level speakers...that's probably the case in which I'd use his service, but I'm not interested in that aspect of the story.
Measurements without obvious defects are a indicator of engineering competency and diligence (no laziness permitted), especially if they want to charge 4k USD for a pair of bookshelves. After it passes the competence/diligence test, you can do your AB listening tests all day long. Sounds like you want to pay that Danish engineer for being lazy and taking naps at work (instead of a honest day's worth of work) What is it? bias? brand name fan boyism? Don't pay that guy for being a lazy bum. Pay him for working. Here's a list of speakers that would do quite well (in comparison to that "special" cheese), if you're looking at bookshelves KEF Reference 1 Revel PerformaBe M126Be JBL HDI 1600 Technics SB-C700 Elac Navis etc. etc
This would be a good argument IF the typical array of measurements were capable of determining what speakers sound good. Unfortunately, that is a science still in its infancy, as evidenced by all the seasoned and jaded audiophiles who end up loving poor measuring speakers as opposed to those conforming to the NRC/Toole design philosophy. Lucky for us, many speaker designers incorporate listening tests in their processes, and not simply a DBX test in an unrealistic room where the bright/ perceptively detailed speakers with elevated upper bass are going to be preferred, because that’s usually the case when listening tests are short interval. That’s how Harman and some others voice their speakers because they know that will impress during showroom auditions with inexperienced listeners. Dynaudio almost falls in that camp IME but I won’t delve into that. However, I do agree with Danny that it was a failure of Dynaudio to not address the woofer breakup in the crossover design.
So has anyone opened those speakers and provide evidence that they use the very-very top-end expensive parts in them, to provides "evidence" that they sound good because of the expensive parts? See the "logic" behind using expensive parts vs actually sounding good in real life? Here I must confess have no experience with Special series, have not heard them to tell if they are worth it. But I can confess the Dynaido Confidence C1 Platinum are by far the best sounding bookselves I've ever heard. And all that said I simply do not care what parts they are using inside the speakers, and those speakers are definitely not cheap. That's what I call engineering ingenuitey I'd expect from such product, how to make things work and perform together - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Hell, they can use 0,2 cent Chinash#t parts as long as they deliver in sonic performace to my ear. Which they do, and in spades. Agreed. But intentionally overlapping crossovers can sometimes be a secret trick of intentional coloration or enhancement (i.e. vocal) in midrange when phasing is timed right. I wouldn't be sure that "flatter" modification makes them necessarily "better" sounding before I could A/B compare original and modifyed speaker sets in same conditions. The Dynaudio hi-fi/high-end series (from Emit, Evoke, Special, Contour to Confidence) speakers are for listening and pleasure product, they are not studio monitors that have to be 100% flat in every responce and every spec - speakers made for listening often have certain coloration or intentional pleasing effect. Almost all hi-fi/high-end manufacturers do that to certain degree - high-end is almost never about 100% flatness and honesty, it's almost always about the different nuances in sound that please for different tastes. Dynaudio makes separate Lyd, BM and Core series for monitor market that looks for flatness and "honesty" in sound. Lyd/BM/Core series is made for music production and critical monitor listening, not stricly made for music listening but you can always use them for everyday listenin if that's your thing.
Regarding that woofer peak in the 40s, it’s a result of cone breakup which is a considerable distortion relative to commonly acceptable driver distortion. It may not be a big issue under real-world listening conditions but I think Danny’s main point was that the stand-alone woofer measurements are not all that impressive given they hype of Dynaudio’s drivers. Some very inexpensive pro drivers can run full-out without suffering such peaks, so is the hype of the Dynaudio woofer really justified? When a manufacturer hypes the quality of their drivers, I typically find it’s unwarranted. I could name many brands that fall under that category but don’t want to incite my crucifixion (maybe too late). In my experience a mid-level Seas, Scanspeak, Eminence, or Satori driver can match and often exceed the performance of those produced in-house by the speaker builders. A mid-level Scanspeak tweeter costs about $80. Dynaudio charges $1800/pair for their Esotar2 according to the rep I spoke with. That’s insane considering what I heard from that tweeter. The Contour series sound very monitor-like in my experience and Stereophile’s measurements of the Contour 20 bear that out with exception of a couple peaks. They are very pleasant speakers according to the NRC/Toole philosophies, but to my ears, in my room, they were much too bright and analytical. The 40s would probably be more to my liking even despite that cone breakup issue.
