Component synergy driving me bonkers

Singers sounding shouty on louder parts to me is typical when speakers are not balanced from top to bottom, and don't have enough bottom end to even things out. I had this problem before I brought a sub in. So, either your speakers need more break in, but when the problem remains I would definitely play around with speaker placement as they might be in a null-spot for certain bass frequencies, hence the fact that certain higher freqs get accentuated. Just my personal experience with the same problem.

Also, try some other sources as well so you can eliminate that as a problem.

 

My guess is the pressings being played are mastered loudly and this new system configuration exposes that even more.

 

I agree that this Yamaha is never going to sound as warm as the gear they built in the early 80s, I also strongly recommend more break in and perhaps looking at your speaker cables and especially interconnects to the CD player. Cables make a BIG difference IMO.
Good luck!

 

New speakers can sound very shrill or hard , lacking warmth, body and sweetness in the highs.
Those will all start to change once you have around 100 - 200 hours on. ( depending on make)
My 30th Ann Triangle Antals are notorious for taking their time breaking in.
They sounded like crap early on (hard, tight,and yes shouty) and eventually transformed to a very engaging and beautiful sounding speaker.
That kept changing over a period of a year or more, most of the change occurred after about 300 hours......it required a lot of patience.
But those drivers in the Antal's take longer than most to break in.
I would let your speakers play continuously at very moderate levels for a week or two.
Then start the critical listening process.

 

Have You toed in your speakers ?

 

Sorry, wrong adress, was ment for redchiro !

 

This could be part of the burn-in of both components, but could also be due in part of your interconnects and power cables as I mentioned above. I distinctly remember listening to the Mary J. Blige/U2 duet of "One" with my A-S3000 unit with my old, cheap cables and hearing Mary's voice jump right out of the mix into a bit of distortion during the second chorus. The problem and overall balance was solved as soon as I upgraded my cables.

 

After it's played for a couple hundred hours, see if you feel the same way on the same songs. What were you previously using to power the Polks?

A few thoughts from experience (in order of importance):

• The speakers could just be shouty (frequency response peak somewhere that hurts your ears) or you don't like the sound of the driver material (typically happens with metal drivers).
• Consider whether your acoustic space is too lively and needs some more absorption of certain frequencies.
  
• Could be more revealing of your chain and showing a deficiency elsewhere. When I've had similar experiences they've been (in order of annoyance) from (1) using silver cables in the analog chain (interconnects and speaker cables); (2) using a well-measuring but horrible sounding DAC from ESS in my now-sold Oppo BDP-105D; (3) having a weird speaker cable interaction with a particular integrated amp that made no sense but went away when switching to another brand (this was at a dealer, on my integrated I took in to demo speakers); and (4) having an amp with a forward sound signature.
  • The only time I've winced has been when using unshielded silver RCA cables from the Oppo BDP-105D into my now-sold Peachtree integrated. It was literally painful. Switching to any shielded copper interconnect was night and day different.
  • After the new gear has been used for a while, if the issue persists I'd try some basic all copper speaker cables and shielded interconnects with solid specs. I use Mogami W3103 and 2534 starquad XLR now, and have tried Anticables, Cardas Golden Reference and Clear Day in the past. Maybe the silver-plated speaker cables are not a great match with the new gear.
  • I'm guessing it's not the amp or CD player given what others have said about Yamaha sound signature in this thread. Not familiar with CD player and looks like it uses the Burr-Brown PCM1738EG chips in the audio DAC stage. Maybe others can speak to that DAC chip or Pioneer's implementation.

Good luck!

 

If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the problem being related to speaker FR and room acoustics, or the recordings themselves.

 

Thanks. I need to do the same when I get a chance to reconnect some video. Let me know, no hurry. Take care.

 

Think I agree with you at this point. Seems unlikely an amp would have some weird frequency "hot spot" smack dab in the human singing voice range. And you are right, some recordings definitely much worse than others. But the spkrs and this room (first system since I moved so room is new to me too!), could be throwing it all over the top. Have no memory of these recordings catching my attention like this in other systems, in other houses, etc. It is this combo. Might try reconnecting the avr and comparing at some point.

 

A properly designed amp like the Yamaha will not have odd FR like that. Highly unlikely. Same deal with the disc spinner, as long as it is not broken or out of spec - I realize it is old at this point. Both should be very close to ruler flat.

Try finding some ruler flat speakers - nearly impossible. Most speakers will have *some* peaks and valleys in the FR. They might sound very nice in one room and not another because room acoustics can affect things in a big way. It could be you just don't like the sound of the speakers or the room is mucking up your sound. Ideally we would want to see an in-room measurement of the speakers. You'll have to buy or borrow equipment and use software to make that happen though.

From there you might be able to figure out if the speakers are worth keeping and if your room just needs some treatments. Dunno if you are open to DSP room correction and speaker EQ but that's another way to go about things. Google your speaker brand+model and "room correction" and see what other folks have done.

 

Thank you! Great suggestions and very useful. Yes, the spkr cable is silver plate. The Polk spkrs have soft domes and the higher treble is quite lovely- delicate and beautiful. The speakers could be shouty- have to experiment. I have the smaller model sitting here to try. Same driver array, just smaller cabinet and woofers, but who knows? Definitely going to get some new speaker cable and tweak the room. It is an old colonial, I rent, so on the second floor. The TV and components are btw the speakers right now as well. Floor is thin commercial-like carpet. The walls are sheet-rock and mostly bare. Drapes are skimpy. One anomaly is this: there is a 4x4 cut out in the ceiling to the third floor, with a metal spiral staircase. It is kinda close to the left spkr. The room is also open to the kitchen. I will feel fine with this as long as it is not my new amp! Can work with anything else. Really want to love this amp. Saved a long time to get and finally could on close-out.

 

You make perfect sense and I think I will try to do what I can with the room, try other speakers, different placement, etc. Work my way to cables if needed. I will be relieved if the amp is not a contributor. It really shines in so many ways.

 

Odds are nearly nil that amp is a problem here. I wouldn't bother swapping cables either.

Experimenting with placement, room treatments, DSP/EQ, etc. may help. If not, return the speakers and get something else, because it's entirely possible you bought a set of speakers that are simply not to your taste. I see that all the time.

 

Don't forget "juxtaposition".

 

Thank you. I think I know what you mean. Without direct comparison, I have no reference point so I appreciate yours!
There is a wonderful fullness and "warmth" though when it is in the recording. That, coupled with the awesome resolution and dynamics is very engaging. I am not finding the music thin-sounding or hashy or sibilant. This amp is far more refined than my old Aragon 404 Mark2 up top. It is just that sharp, biting, burst, when a vocalist hits a peak, that begs for a reduction of volume, when the rest of the music is just right volume-wise.

 

It's very unlikely that the amp is the issue. It's most likely the room or the speakers need more break in time. I've had speakers before that sounded overly forward/bright until they had 100+ hours of burn in time.

 

Bare Walls = Shouty

 

...Okay, now you need to get your tail down to H. R, and ask for the corporate program on sexual harassment...!

 

Yamaha voicing results in slightly recessed vocals if anything. The amp probably needs further break-in, however, if the 707s measure like the 703s in the midrange on up, they are simply bright speakers. Bright speakers paired with a resolving amp can reveal bad recordings for what they are.

 

I didn’t care for the amp section in my Yamaha A-S1000. Once I ran it out into a different power amp, I began to dig the sound.

I think cables are also going to be another factor here. I would like to try something like the Kimber line or anything else in copper.

 

The Sound & Vision measurements of your Polks don't show anything obvious that would cause a shouty quality. Do you have another source to try? You have new speakers and a new amp, but an old CD player. Though opinions vary, I think that DACs have improved a lot in recent years. Can you borrow a CD player or DAC to see if your new gear is simply showing the limitations of your player?

As others have said, toeing out the speakers a little can help tame brightness.

An easy thing is use the treble control, also suggested by others. It is there for a reason -- don't feel bad about using it! Remember, recordings vary a lot in tonal balance, an unfortunate fact that better equipment makes obvious.

And if you have is no room treatment, at least add something absorbent to trap first reflections on the side walls. You can experiment with blankets or towels before buying anything. It is often said that room treatment can make striking improvements in sound quality, and my experiences bear that out strongly.

While cables can change the sound slightly, my opinion is that the money would be better spent on a good CD player or DAC, if trying one improves the sound, or on room treatment if you're so inclined. A tip: the latter is almost all made to order, so take the opportunity to pick a Guilford fabric you like. There are thousands of them, and Guilford will send free swatches.

Enjoy your new rig! From what I've read, those Polks are nice speakers.

 

Yes, they would be, as the 703s have a nasty top-octave rise. The measurements I saw of the 707s don't show that at all. And though I wouldn't want to listen to the 703s, the rise is above the range I'd call shouty. I think @DigMyGroove may have it right:

 

Yes, just recently. Also removed a bunch of stuff from a spiral staircase in the room that was affecting the imaging. Feeling optimistic. There are things going on that are very addictive. Just played the 3 Alison Krauss sacd's and honestly, I could not ask for more from a hi-fi system. Obviously, these are high quality recordings but the components, cables, room, etc., even if problematic in some way, were doing nothing to detract from how incredible this music sounded. Everything good you could want from a system, in spades. With these albums, detail, transients, decay of notes, the unraveling of all the instruments in space, was fantastic and never at the expense of warmth, liquidity, fullness, natural tone, etc.
I think once I get a few things sorted, I will be very happy. The system is very revealing and perhaps less prone to masking any flaws in a recording that I may be used to. I plan to revisit some of the ones I took issue with once I get some hours on the equipment, make a few changes, etc.
Man, some of the stuff with great bass lines, sure makes a case for a big, full-range tower. Thought otherwise until this Yamaha with it's big power supply, was paired with the imposing Polk 707's. What a grip on the bass and so articulate and fun to listen to. Never overblown, exaggerated or boomy.