Considering MC275. Which preamp: C2500, C22, C50?

I've been looking for a new amp over the last month or so. I went to the local Mcintosh dealer to check out a MA7900 integrated amp, but found myself drooling over the MC275. If I went that route, I could just use my existing Sony AVR's pre-outs and leave it at that for now. But then again, I was thinking why leave myself wanting. Maybe I'll get a preamp too and just get it over with!

So the manager tells me they have a C50 (solid state) and a C2500 (tube) that were demo models that he can discount, still with factory warranty. The C22 caught my eye too. Love the retro look of that thing. No demo available on that one though. It also lacks a DAC and a home heater pass-through, which were two features I liked about the former two.

So, is it better to have a tube or solid state preamp with the MC275? And if tube, do the additional features on the C2500 give it the edge over the cool-looking C22? I am listening to a lot of vinyl these days, but I do occasionally want to play some of my digital collection (currently I'm using the Sony AVR for that with an Apple TV or a Pioneer Elite multi-format disc player). I'm not sure how to integrate the Sony AVR with the C22 without a home theater pass through. Is that possible?

The comments of those less ignorant than I am would be appreciated!

 

In terms of which is better, the answer to that all depends upon your personal tastes. Personally I prefer tube gear overall. But there is some great sounding SS gear too. Nobody can answer the question of what your own ears like better than you can.

However, that said: As much as I like the MC275, from a purely sonic standpoint, I would be far more inclined to run a good Tube preamp with a SS amp than I would be to run a good tube amp with a SS preamp.

 

If you're going to get the modern MC275, I'd get the C2500. The current "c22" has nothing in common with the original, and while it's cool looking, as you say it lacks features that are nice to have in a McIntosh preamp. The C2500 has a very nice DAC as well as a very nice phono stage.

And definitely get both at once. McIntosh is a house sound brand, which makes them kind of a synergy brand as well. You really want the matching amp and preamp to get the full effect. I've used just the amps and just the preamps in various combinations and it's not the same at all. Also, if you connect an MC275 to the preamp outs of a Sony AVR the HiFi gods will strike you down with a lightning bolt. I'm serious.

 

Thanks. Would the C2500 pair better with one of their solid state amps then? Also, is there any advantage to having two MC75's rather than one MC275? My initial thought was the MC275 would be more versatile because I could also run it in mono and add a second one later on.

 

The 275 is more versatile than is a pair of 75s. But sonically I'm guessing that a pair of 75s probably has a very slight edge over a single 275.

I know that a number of Mac dealers will recommend using one of the Mac tube preamps with one of their SS amps. And while in a perfect world I prefer to run tubes from end to end, I have had some pretty decent sound over the years when combining a really good tube preamp with a really good SS amp.

But remember this: You can always upgrade later. If you go with a tube preamp now, you could always find a good, but inexpensive SS amp to run with it for a period of time while you save up your pennies so that you can buy the tube amps of your choice sometime in the future.

 

Thanks. I'm inclined to just go all tube then. I'm thinking the C2500 and MC275, unless there are other suggestions on the power amp.

 

Any other opinions on this from McIntosh owners (or anyone else)?

Thanks!

 

What speakers do you have?

 

I have a McIntosh C2300 tubed preamp paired with my MC275 and love the combination.


Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

B&W DM604 (series 1).

 

Thanks, good to know. Looks like the C2500 replaced the C2300? I assume they're not too dissimilar.

 

Hi there! Proud owner of a c2500/mc452 combo. I was debating between the c50 and c2500 as well. I chose the c2500 because I thought the tubes warmed up the sound a little and I wanted to have the versatility of dropping in a tube amp later if I wanted for an all analog chain. The c50 has the advantage of more precise 8 band EQ, but I do not ever use EQ settings so it made it easier

My combo is my prized possession along with my Focal 1038BEs. You won't be disappointed either way.

I too decided to splurge once. Get both and be done or you will constantly wonder how much better it could have sounded : )

 

I did this a number of years ago. Bought an MC275 and a demo model C2200. That is a predecessor of the 2300 and now the 2500, but is tubes, etc. I love the combination.
Then, speaking of a 275 vs a pair of 75s, I bought a second 275 to run them as mono blocks. That definitely upped the ante. Really pleased with the sound. Running KEF Reference speakers, really nice combination.
So I don't think you would go wrong with the C2500 combination, especially with the extra inputs it gives you.

 

I will also add that with the addition of the McIntosh pre-amp you can still run your AVR for home theater or whatever. The c2500 has a passthru mode, and I do utilize it to integrate my system in with home theater. Your sony AVR can power your center and surrounds, then you go preout to the c2500 in passthru for the mains. The AVr hooks to the c2500 with a trigger cable. As soon as you power on the AVR it powers on the c2500 in passthru. Another trigger cable from the preamp to amp in turn fires up the amp. Really nice feature if this is not strictly for 2 ch

 

Thanks for the input. The MC452 must really crank! Good job on that combination. I just read your review of the Focals. Very nice! I suspect once I get the Mac gear I'll be itching to upgrade the speakers as well. I'm kind of in year two of a 3-4 year upgrade process. Started with the turntable last year, which led to phono stage, and now I'm on the amp. I planned on doing the speakers next, and then messing around with wire/cables and other minor tweaks.

 

Sounds very similar to my path. Take care of your power and preamp and go from there! Take your time and build what you really want one step at a time. Took me 4 years to get where my system is now. It's worth it to wait and save.

 

Yes, definitely. I was looking for something with the home theater bypass/pass through for just that reason. The trigger cable just has a 3.5mm male plug at both ends?

 

Yep. One trick also on the McIntosh gear - If the trigger cable from the AVR is stereo the meter lights will come on. If you don't want that use a mono trigger cable. I do because when watching a movie I don't really want the big meters on

 

Ah, good tip! I may not want all that blue light when watching a movie.

 

I've heard both of these amps quite a bit and they both sound really similar and fantastic. The C22 is very similar to the C2300 in design features and the C2500 is the natural progression of the C2300.

The C22 is a purist 2 channel preamp without a lot of the bells and whistles that the C2500 has. If I intended to use it in a system that doubles as a home theater, I would go for the C2500 with home theater pass through. If it was only a 2 channel system I would base it on which one looked better to me, which is a tough choice as both look as good as they sound IMO. My preference is for the C2500 as far as looks as I like the tube window up top and meters, but the C22 is no slouch and cool looking as well.

The DAC in the C2500 is only OK to me, but a very convenient feature if you have more than one digital device. I would probably opt for an external DAC at some point though. I really like and prefer the separate D100 and D150 Mac DACs.

 

Thanks. That's interesting about the DAC in the C2500...I assumed it would be pretty similar to the D100. Can you say how it differs?

The DAC probably isn't quite as important to me as the phono stage. Do you have an opinion on the moving coil phono stage?

 

I can't say this with 100% certainty, but I thought it was actually marketed as an actual d100 inside the c2500. I think technically, it might use a different chipset. With that said, it is a brilliant sounding DAC that will do up to 32/192 with optical, coax and USB inputs. I am utilizing the USB input and I think it sounds real real good.

There are some known issues with the c2500 DAC though that people with the d100 don't have. There are software/firmware bugs that make the USB input a little bit quirky. Namely, it may lock up, have trouble changing quickly between files of difference resolution, and require a reboot once in a while by power cycling the preamp. If you get one, make SURE your dealer upgrades it for you to the latest USB firmware from McIntosh. It really does help. If you use the USB you will thank me. If you don't, you won't have any issues whatsoever. If you use the USB and have it upgraded properly, you will alleviate most problems.

 

Thanks, I'll ask them about doing the update. How can you verify which version of the firmware is installed?

 

I run the C2300 through the MC402. Great combination - for the last 7 years now. I had the AMP first but when I teamed it with the C2300 pre it made a huge difference. I have no desire to ever change this combination. Of course, C25oo and MC452 are the latest models and I've heard nothing but praise for them.

 

It is in the guide for sure. There is a button you can push in the front panel configuration that tells you. Very simple