CSN Remaster or Original CD

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DennisF, Jun 3, 2006.

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  1. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    Hmm ... I think I need to revisit the original CD pressing of CSN's debut album!
     
  2. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Are you sure they didn't master the original LP, and the credits just carried over?
     
  3. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Location:
    Off Broadway
    That's certainly possible.
     
  4. street legal

    street legal Forum Resident

    Location:
    west milford, nj

    I do beleive that is the case with this one.
     
  5. Batears52

    Batears52 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Near Baltimore, MD
    Sorry for the confusion on my part - I'm sure you guys are right - Somehow, I had it in my brain that the Gastwirt remasters came out in the late 90's (instead of earlier)...and that they replaced the ones I remembered from the early 90's. But obviously I remembered it wrong. :sigh:

    So I have Barry's versions of the "couch" album & "So Far" - cool! (I like the HDCD one from last year too...looking forward to more.)

    Dexter
     
  6. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    I remember that Steve mentioned two earlier masterings of "Deja Vu", the original which is to be avoided, and a silent remaster which is recommended. Sorry, I don't know the details anymore.

    My preferred Deja Vu CD:
    SD 19118-2, "Europe: 250001", Manufactured In Germany, silver disc with black ring.
    Probably the same as the standard US disc with the 19118-2 number.


    Barry,

    do you remember anything about an upgrade/remaster of the Deja Vu CD in the 1980s?
     
  7. budlyte

    budlyte Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan's U.P.
    I prefer the Atlantic remasters from the early 90s of the couch album and Daylight Again over the recent Rhino ones. I also have the 90s remaster of the boat album, and it sounds great as well.
     
  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'm pretty sure that's the one I have, with the dropouts.
     
  9. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Why so negative? You could call it "the one without noise reduction or narrowing". :)
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    None are perfect. At least the NR is only on a few intros, and the narrowing is only on the intro to Carry On.

    Unless there's another version I'm not aware of, all CD versions seem to have problems. The HDCD from Japan is way, way too bright. Don't know what happened there.
     
  11. Evan

    Evan Senior Member

    Deaf engineer maybe? :whistle:
     
  12. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The booklet says Joe Gastwirt, but I don't know if the credit just carried over from the earlier disc he did or not. He is/was a big user of HDCD, but I'd be surprised if he made it that much brighter. His Hendrix HDCD disc sounds pretty close to his earlier remasters.

    I'll see if I can find anything out.
     
  13. Evan

    Evan Senior Member

    This would explain the differences I hear between my US pressed Ultimate Rascals and my Japan pressed copy (both are Barry's mastering). So, do you think its jitter causing these differences? Or something else?
     
  14. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
  15. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi Evan,

    I believe jitter *may* be a part of the story. I don't know if it is the whole story. Many factors come into play when the glass master is made. Other factors could be timing of the pressing sequence (i.e. how long in the press), etc.

    The above may result of mal-formed pits on the final discs, which would induce jitter on playback but I can't say for sure and I don't know anyone (at this point) who can. I know there are a lot of variables and I know discs *always* sound different from each other and none sound just like the master. A slow-burned CD-R always sounds better to my ears than any pressing I've heard to date, even from the best plants I know of.

    This is another one of many audio phenomena that are pretty easy for an experienced listener to hear but pretty difficult to find a satisfying explanation for much less a solid remedy.

    Barry
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
     
  16. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hey Barry...

    Don't know if I've asked you or not, but have you seen the Prism article about power supply issues? Take any stock in that?
     
  17. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi Luke,

    I haven't seen that article yet. Got a link?

    "Take any stock in that"? Yes I do. The power supply is the heart of any electronic component and improving the power supply strategy always results in better sound.

    For example, when a CD player has a single power supply for the whole shebang, that supply has to feed the laser's servo as well as the audio circuitry. When the servo has to work harder (such as when a disc is subject to external vibrations) there is less juice available for the audio. This is an over-simplification but I believe it illustrates the point.

    Whether this comes into play (and how) during the disc replication process would be an interesting question to get answered.

    Barry
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
     
  18. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Here's the article:

    http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/cdinvest.pdf

    A bit long, but basically they *thought* they were seeing power interference between the servo mechanism and the DAC. If the disc was different physically, the servo would react slightly differently, etc...

    Unfortunately, it's fairly old, and I haven't seen any updates.

    We can discuss it more later, but I have to run.
     
  19. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi Luke,

    Oh, *that* article.
    Yes, I've read it. Perhaps I misinterpreted it but I read a "non-conclusive" "conclusion" that appeared to suggest this might be imagined. This based on the fact that they did not arrive at "statistically significant" results from their tests.

    This is at odds with my own experience.

    Barry
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
     
  20. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    I like the Gold Cd . The original cd is too thin sounding. Haven't heard the aluminium or HDCD remaster. The same songs on the box set sound good too. As does the original So Far disc.
     
  21. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The sample sizes were quite small, and yes, they didn't conclude differences can be heard. But they *did* measure differences in discs (due to the aforementioned servo/DAC interaction), which might offer a baby step in the direction of an answer. I believe Roger Nichols also once mentioned something about poor player design, but never expounded upon that thought.
     
  22. pablo

    pablo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE, USA
    I suppose this is not the thread to discuss it, but, as a matter of conjecture, how stiff a power supply is required for a CD player? How many joules of available energy is required to eliminate the variation in sound of different makes of CD's? And at what expense?
     
  23. Dennis, I just got the original CD version of the 1977 "boat" album by CSN. It is a WG pressing, aluminum all the way to the center.

    Just compared it to the 1994 (ca.) Gastwirt remaster.

    The original CD is way superior in my opinion. The remastered version sounds processed and unnatural in comparison. It also has less dynamics, and the busy parts of Cathedral hurt my ears when played at louder volume, where the original CD sounds super smooth and nice.
     
  24. The Gastwirt remaster is also heavily no-noised, especially noticeable during Cathedral.

    By the way, Cathedral on the original Atlantic CD runs 5:43 while it is only 5:17 on the remaster. There are a few extra piano notes at the beginning of the song on the original CD (about 7 seconds), and the song also runs noticeably slower on the original version, which makes up for the remaining time difference (approx 19 seconds or roughly 6% - that's a lot!).

    The other tracks seem to be running at pretty much the same speed. Anyone know what happened there?
     
  25. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet, ain’t talkin’

    Location:
    The ATX
    That's interesting Roland. I don't care for "Cathedral", but may be I'd like it better if it was 6% faster ;)

    Does anyone know if our good friend Mr. Diament did the original Atlantic of CSN? Or Daylight Again for that matter? I agree the original CSN sounds very good. Daylight Again not so much--I suspect a high gen tape source.
     
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