I should say I was comparing the Five Years 2016 remastered to the 1999s and I cannot tell a major difference. Is this box on par with that?
Somebody up thread makes a good point about us not being the target audience for the label. With that I think that any major label basically couldn't care less about how deeply we investigate boxes. For each of us there are a thousand who buy it, whack it on and play it while they dust, hoover, drive, cook and talk. Those people will never hear these faults so why would the label care to qualify the box beyond it works? They are not ethical, these things don't happen because they are awful at making this stuff, it happens because they don't care if it is made bad because we only matter for the time we open our wallets. Smaller labels have to care, they need the business from SHF far more than Parlophone do.
If they spent as much time in the studio on quality control as they did in marketing meetings figuring out what to leave out of which configuration to make people buy stuff they didn't want, pricing, etc.... The contrast between the attention to marketing and, well, the music .. is shocking. The errors on "Heroes"* and "Speed of Life", and what is described as probably "splicing" on the foreign-language versions - if these were deliberate decisions, they were just wrong. The decisions about the Visconti remix, OTOH, and the occasional needle-drop, are down to matters of taste, and can always be ignored. * "Heroes"? Really? That's like screwing with "My Way" on a Sinatra box and hoping no one notices.
Sadly Philip you are probably correct. This said, to have such an egregious error must surely demand a recall. I can't imagine that the error on 'Heroes' can go unresolved once the individual album is released in the New Year? Even the 'casual' listener who wants 'Heroes' because they saw the song performed on X Factor will notice - surely? I admit that sometimes I get lost amongst the technical specs' and often tell myself, "Oh well that must be a creative choice to up the bass' or whatever ... but on 'Heroes', it is so obviously a technical error at the mastering level, right?
I agree, they surely can't leave that error out there. They should at least correct it for the standalone releases and offer a replacement. I'm sure box owners would be happy to wait if it is made clear that the error is being worked on.
I'm not sure my response was presented in an odd manner. If someone is suggesting that you're essentially an idiot if you pay for a streaming service but choose to still buy a box set of a legendary star, that's pure cheapness. Sorry. There could be no other conclusion. And me giving an example of when streaming services don't deliver is also not odd.
Hi everyone! Sorry if I missed this, but does anyone know when the stand alone cd sedition’s from thus box will be released? Thanks!
Could the Amazon US delay be due to a production issue regarding some of the problems people have encountered? It's flat-out weird that vinyl preorders haven't gone out yet.
You may be onto something. I think looking at the waveforms is misleading and there is something of an optical illusion when you look at it like the Café wall illusion - Wikipedia . Below are screen shots of the track from two masterings, in Audacity. I did not compare the RCA Japan-for-US cassette master digital transfer or the Virgin remaster from digital transfer from the original un-EQ'd tapes for simplicity's sake. The 1984/1991/1999 (release date) masterings look remarkably the same. 1st one is the full track. Note that the Rykodisc mastering does some clipping, while the Parlophone does not. They are from different digital transfers, done about 25 years apart. 2nd one is between 2:25 and 3:25 or so. The samples don't match exactly and are out of sync by maybe a second.
I didn’t know there was an Amazon US delay. I preordered my vinyl box from Amazon almost immediately....got it for $159 (they quickly raised the price). My box set arrived first thing Friday morning.
Is there any difference between the European vinyl box and the American? I have the (very cheap) preorder from the US but if it turns out that the Euro pressings are better, I might cancel that one.
I don't really care. He was a musician and collaborator and has no production credits on any of the albums.
Thanks for posting. The way I read those two sets of waveforms is the the RYKO is mastered a fractionally too loud and clips (most likely resulting in momentary digital distortion**) on several occasions (four times on each channel but in different places), though the integrity of the dynamics is retained. On the other hand the Parlophone is mastered so it doesn't clip, but is clearly had its dynamic range reduced (it's been compressed with a hard peak limit) - all of the peaks are uniform (and prior to the volume drops @2:47 there are many more of them), which is not the case with the RYKO. From your waveforms the sound following the volume drop @2:47 on the Parlophone shows an increase in dynamic range, though it is still peak limited far more than the RYKO. I suspect "uses clipping" leads to an misunderstanding of what is happening here. Any clipping (of any digital recording) results in digital distortion (usually to be avoided at all times); peak limiting and/or compression results in a lower dynamic sound that what the microphones picked up. So on the track "Heroes" there are eight momentary instances of digital distortion** on the RYKO whereas there are six minutes of peak limiting (and a reduction in volume midway through the track) on the Parlophone. ** Depending on the settings of the digital recorder the red lines may indicated "0" level has been reached on input, rather than "0" level has been exceeded on input. If the former ("been reached") there is no digital distortion.
Yes, you have indeed managed to miss the thrust of my post. In order to discuss sound quality no-one has to suggest a Producer has dementia, or is going deaf. That's the point. The criticism is way over-the-top. We've now had three of these boxes, and it's basically all been complaints. Why are people still buying them? Surely it should be clear by now that those who hold the RCA's up as the best yet are simply not going to be satisfied? This seems to be good old common sense. I am curious why people don't at least wait for reviews before buying a third box after reading all the complaints about the previous two. Personally I don't have any need to play the RCA's. I'm happy with much that has been in these boxes. As I said, there are some on this forum who will never be happy. I say that because I believe it. I don't even think the frame of reference is correct. For example, you're correct about technology moving on, so why would you want them to sound like your RCA's? I don't expect these to sound like the original Vinyl - and I've not read anyone involved in the product suggest that's what they're going for. So what is this "digital holy grail" you're referring too? What would satisfy you? Do you hear nothing new on, say, Low? It's a shame we can't discuss various choices made, rather than throw around insults about Producers. I'm sorry, but I find this way off. Is it really "staggering"? Really? It's an mistake, an error, but I'd suggest it's not exactly earth moving. As far as I know, we have heard nothing from the label, but you've already decided they "lack respect" for the catalog, and also for the "people who buy it". Really? I've been buying music for decades, and this won't be the first time around the block waiting for a fix. IF they do nothing about it - then perhaps it's a lack of respect, but right now I think your comment is hyperbolic. I'm going back to listen to Low again now. You guys hear nothing interesting - other than complaints? Wow.
I have the Station To Station CD from the Who Can I Be Now? box set and there really isn't any difference than the 1999 remaster
Mine was a relatively recent Amazon vinyl preorder, and arrived yesterday. I do happen to have Amazon Prime--could it be that they prioritized those?
thanks. the discogs entry for the LP set has now been updated since earlier today, there are now all the matrix codes listed for anyone who wants to see them: For those who don't follow all the details, the "BH" code at the start of the numbers in the deadwax indicates it was pressed at Optimal in Germany in 2017. (B is for vinyl format, H is for 2017) David Bowie - A New Career In A New Town [1977-1982]
So why should I be hating on Low? To much bass? Hm. Not really, imo. (Listening on a Linn Majik amp, Linn Mimik CD, and a pair of HD 650's). There's an almost crunchy bit of bass in the first track, but I've heard that before. There are some really nice things about this version, imo. The vocal in Always Crashing.... is nice. There are bits of detail here and there I've not heard before, or at least not been able to appreciate fully. And what was Side Two sounds amazing.
But they're selling vinyl - at a premium. Raises an interesting question. With all we know about the history of mastering/cutting for vinyl, what bass means in that context, and the digital realm being able to do things that analog did not/could not (or SHOULD NOT), shouldn't one really have two different pathways going for producing vinyl and digital? It's hard to imagine the perfect master for digital product and the perfect master for vinyl being the same. (Unless, of course, you're digitally presenting an analog master, like the 2010 Station to Station box did.)
