Due to UK availability I used Mofi plus enzyme cleaner. I have not been able to track down the safety data sheet yet to find out what is in it like I have been able to do for other proprietary solutions. Will report if when I do.
Yes, I've asked Aleks about that. But the water temperature sensor doesn't work correct (at least, in my machine). I pour water from fridge (2C) and the sensor shows 18C, perhaps it can't measure low temperatures.
I heard back from Aleks today on the leaking as follows: First thing to check is to try and press on the water tank when inserting it into the unit. To make sure that it is all the way to the bottom to provide the best seal. While the machine is turned off, you can remove and insert the water tank a couple of times and then leave the machine with the water tank in to see if the water is leaking out. While this type of leak will be more prominent when the water is being pumped out, it can also occur when the machine is not in the use. I am pretty sure I have the water tank firmly placed as suggested and I am pretty sure it was not leaking after my initial round of 3 LP's cleaned. I'll top up the water and check it out again later this evening/over the weekend but wanted to share... He also had an interesting comment about using Tergitol which I also wanted to share: Regarding the cleaning fluid, using a Tergitol can cause excessive foaming and if you desire to use it then we recommend swapping the water with pure water and using smaller amount. We have not tested the unit with Tergitol, so it is difficult for us to tell how much foam it can generate. Also, does 'Pure' water mean regular tap water? I'll confirm with Aleks but that would be rather surprising if so...
Does Tergitol 15-S-9 foam - yes. As written in many posts and in the book: "XIV.7.d Dow™ Tergitol™ 15-S-9 at a solution concentration of about 150 ppm (0.0150%) and 2.5% IPA did not initially produce foam, but after successive cleaning cycles began producing foam. Reducing the Dow™ Tergitol™ 15-S-9 to a concentration of about 80 ppm (0.008%) and 2.5% IPA significantly reduced foaming and still showed excellent wetting.". Do not use tap water; use only distilled or deionized water. The Degritter manual correctly states "1 ) U S E D I S T I L L E D WATER Use only distilled or demineralised water to clean records. Limescale in tap water can have an adverse effect on cleaning and it can leave residue onto the inner surfaces of the machine over time.".
Much appreciated Neil. I didn't think using tap water was the way to go and will use only distilled water. Given the excessive foaming I am seeing, would it make sense to maybe use a little less of the 1% Tergitol mix - so instead of the 11ml for 1400ml of distilled water, say use 9ml or would that not make a huge difference? Maybe the foaming is normal but it seems too much to me - I'll take some pictures over the weekend and share. It is a lot worse at the beginning of the cleaning cycle but by the time it gets to the drying, I would say 90% of the foam is almost gone... Appreciate the feedback and education as always!
I often get quite some foaming on the first round during a wash, but on subsequent rounds it’s virtually gone. For me a sign that everything works fine.
When you prepared the Tergitol 1% solution, how did you do it? Did you prepare a1-pt/500-mL or a 1-qt/1L solution? How did you measure out the Tergitol - what measuring device did you use? What quantity of Tergitol did you measure out to make a 1% solution? How did you measure out the 11-mL of Tergitol to add to the Degritter tank? Have you checked the filter access has the O-ring installed and is tight as @WntrMute2 recommended? Item to note - you can Degas with surfactant in the water. If the the fluid is not degassed, it will be after the first record. So, as others have said, there will be some initial; and quoting what you said: If after answering the above questions we cannot find a root-cause to your foam, you may want to try the Degritter cleaner. It should produce less foam - its essentially a dishwasher rinse-aid, its a wetting agent; use as specified by Degritter.
Thanks, VinBob. Yes, the fan running at end of cycle is to help cool it down. As to fan/cooling cycles, looks like there are two different temperature triggers -- manual ver 2.2 on page 17 states 35 C during cleaning (which seems correct as I just stuck a thermometer in the tank at the end of a cycle and it was close to 35. on page 25, it states 30C when idle. As to why two numbers, the machine has two sensors. From page 40, post 976. (did a google search ;-) ) "The Degritter has an integrated automatic cooling system. There are two temperature sensors in the machine - one directly in the cleaning tank and one near the filter block (which doubles as a cooler).
Thanks Neil. Just to provide some feedback in red: Did you prepare a1-pt/500-mL or a 1-qt/1L solution? I prepared a 500ml solution How did you measure out the Tergitol - what measuring device did you use? I used the following Pipette -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XQFJJKD?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details What quantity of Tergitol did you measure out to make a 1% solution? I used 5ml of Tergitol into the 500ml of distilled water using the Pipette How did you measure out the 11-mL of Tergitol to add to the Degritter tank? I used the same Pipette used to put the Tergitol into the Distilled 500ml of water (This is the 1% solution mix prepared) Have you checked the filter access has the O-ring installed and is tight as @WntrMute2 recommended? Not sure what you mean by this - is this a rubber O-ring on the filter piece that comes out of the unit or inside the unit itself? Anyone can kindly provide a picture please? Thanks for the support everyone!
Did you use a separate pipette - not the same one you used to prepare the 1% solution? The 5-mL Tergitol you added to the 500 mL DW is 100% concentrated. It will leave a thin coating on the pipette interior and exterior. So if the pipette has a coating of 100% Tergitol and then its essentially rinsed with the 1% solution, the concentration added to the Degritter can be much higher than 1%. If you used a separate (new) pipette to add the 11-mL disregard my question. Otherwise, all is in order as they would say. You could try 10-mL if you wanted. Otherwise, try the Degritter cleaner. See this photo is from Degritter Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine - The Audiophile Man - Screenshot-2020-08-11-at-10.57.44_result.jpg (1498×1512) (wp.com). You can see the filter, the filter holder and the thin rubber O-ring. Take care, Neil
Thanks Neil. That's an interesting thought as I didn't know to use a separate pipette. Having said that, I am pretty sure I washed/cleaned the Pipette after I made the 1% solution - I rinsed both inside (using a cleaning brush) and outside with water and then dried with a paper towel. So I can't believe there would have been anything left over to have caused an issue there. Yes, I do have a rubber ring washer at the base and all looks good there. Like I said earlier, I didn't see any leaking coming from that particular area. Will try again over the weekend and report back. Thanks again! All the best, Vin.
Vin, As long as your experienced with what you are doing such as using only DW for cleaning, multiple rinses and and lint-free wipers, then you can trust your results;. I tried glass pipettes and to make a long story short - I changed to disposable pipettes. But, know that when you moved 11-mL of a 1% solution - the solution contained only 110 mg of Tergitol 15-S-9 (110 mg/1.4L = 79 ppm) . If you left 0.05 mL (1-ml = 1g) of 100% Tergitol in the pipette - that could add 50-mg to the 110 mg and now you actually added 160 mg to the Degritter tank so 160mg/1.4L = 115 ppm, and at this concentration you will get more foam. EDIT - Just for completeness, if you only added 4.85 mL vs 5 mL to 500 mL = 0.97% and 11 mL would contain 107 mg vs 110 mg. So at this stage, the preparation has margin, a small error is mostly insignificant. Neil
Just to throw in my 2-cents about the Degritter vs the Klaudio offering… I’ve had the Klaudio US machine for over 9 years. All my records have gone through it. Some have been cleaned MANY times with the Klaudio machine. I believe it really needed a surfactant / detergent additive to bring out its best, so my additive of choice was 1 ml Hepistat 256 / 2,500 ml DW. While better than other methods, I wouldn’t say my records came out “dead quiet” and a chalked it up to damage. I then decided to try a manual scrub with MoFi PLUS Enzyme cleaner before a session in the Klaudio machine. The improvement was significant and I thought I found my ideal approach. Then the pump died, and I used this as an excuse to get a Degritter. I can say with extreme confidence that the Degritter, even with using the Degritter record cleaning fluid at a concentration of 4 ml / 3,785 ml (1 gal) DW, kicks the holy Hell out of the Klaudio machine. 1. My records are approaching “dead quiet” 2. There is no longer “gunk” on my stylus at the end of a record 3. My Degritter filter is visibly soiled (checked / cleaned after 30 cycles) 4. Most disturbingly, my water bath had a pinkish hue to it - the color of Hepistat 256 I should have ordered a 2nd tank for a DW rinse. I should have made the jump long ago. If I had one design suggestion, it would be for an extra large tank w/ a heat sink to aid in cooling.
Well guys - the Degritter needs to go back already and only 8 LP's cleaned! As soon as I place the water container into the unit, I hear some bubbling and then there is water leaking from below the unit underneath where the water tank sits - and its a fair amount. It's not coming out from where the filter plug is located - so that is sealed good. Great machine when it works but I am a little concerned that this has happened so soon (8 LP's cleaned) for such an expensive product. Hoping the replacement is a lot better especially given the investment... Thanks for all the support and guidance all - but I am effectively on hold now until I get a replacement unit, so the cleaning will have to wait some more...
Bummer, I’m sure they’ll take care of you and replace it, unfortunately you got a defective one. I just rolled past 900 cycles which were logged in less than month on mine and its still running like dream. Your next one should be fine.
WOW! - 900 LP's in one month - Now that's impressive Yes, fingers crossed the next one is a LOT better than my current Degritter!
has anyone noticed or experienced that the Degritter rollers create a very light scratching on the outer rim of the record? it looks like a pearl etching scratch. It doesn't bother me but I have noticed this and it's obvious that it's from the rollers.
Hmmm… now that you mention it, I actually noticed this on one of the LPs I cleaned but I assumed it was due to the actual manufacturing of the vinyl itself… I am going to check my other LPs now but I guess no major harm is done….?!
I’m looking at getting a spare water tank for rinsing, anybody else think it’s a little overpriced? For example my Siemens coffee machine has a substantial water tank, similar design, larger capacity, similar material, replacement cost £32.89 ? Which to me seems right to me SIEMENS - 00672049 - Tank Don’t know if this has already been suggested, but wouldn’t it be great if Degritter provided a ‘flexible attachment hose’ that fits onto the water tank connecter so that we could drop the flexi hose into an external say 2l bottle of DW? Easy enough to make, low cost and would allow all sorts of pre mixed solutions to be used by simply switching between bottles. Would also allow a larger volume of water to be used (better cooling) HDPE bottles cost very little, certainly a lot less than £90. Just a thought.
I agree it’s a bit pricey compared to other similar offers, but that’s probably related to the fact that the thank of the Siemens coffee machine is produced in much much larger numbers. Also, the customer support we get from Degritter, which is stellar, justifies a little investment IMHO. An interesting idea, but I doubt that would work. If there’s air in the hose the pump would suck air and that might shorten the pumps life, and maybe also cause other undesirable effects. Of course, one could assure the hose doesn’t have air in it by sucking it full of water manually before connecting it up, but that doesn’t make the setup very fool proof, which would be undesirable from a warranty point of view.
I’m more of a ‘can do guy’ than a ‘that’s never gonna work’, I mean would we of ever gotten the Degritter with an ‘it won’t work’ attitude? it would of course take some engineering to work? I’m not suggesting we all stick a hose pipe on and plop it in a milk bottle full of tap water, the same as not suggestion a cheap Chineese US is the same as a Degritter? it would obviously need to me primed before use etc.. this was just a general suggestion not a request to start ‘project Degritter hose’ I’ll leave that to other engineers in the field as my background is mechanical and electronics not fluid dynamics
I’ve noticed it as well, but it doesn’t seem to occur on every record. I randomly went back and checked various cleaned LP’s and just noticed a few. Odd.
I am in communication with Aleks on my leaking issue and have also made him aware of this. I'll let you all know what he comes back with on this and whether there are any changes/adjustments that can be made to help alleviate...
awesome, thanks. This is an issue i've noticed for awhile now since I first got the Degritter. Aleks is great so hopefully something comes of this.
