Denafrips Dacs

I’m not sure what your streaming source is (equipment not listed), but here’s my chain:

Auralic Aries G1.1 > Audioquest USB > Terminator II

If I got a DDC, it would be:

Auralic Aries G1.1 > Audioquest USB > DDC > I2s > Terminator II

Thoughts on that scenario?

 

IMHO your setup is even better than mine (ZENmini > Audioquest USB > Pontus II 12th) … the USB stream from our players is super clean, so no need for what the DDC does.

Of course as I said above anything is possible but it just seems like overkill or redundancy.

Your streamer has

and



Which seems more than “adequate” to me! Of course it’s your money and your choice.

That said, I have an inexpensive DDC that I’ll try sometime, USB to I2S. I tried it with my Topping DAC and didn’t hear a difference. My audiophilia nervosa tells me it just isn’t expensive enough tho …

 

Curious to know, has anyone had any click issues using an optical cable from the ares II to their cd player/transport? I have yet to test with an optical cable…

 

I agree with Rick. Your streamer is a good one and likely has minimal jitter passing to your very good dac, which has a quality clock inside. I don't think a ddc will be as much of a benefit to your very solid setup.

This said - I have seen denafrips setups talked about in forums of putting a Gaia in front of a T2....I never could determine if that was just an audiophile squeezing out the last drop of improvement, no matter how marginal - or if the Gaia/ddc made a noticable difference to a dac like a T2. Would be interested in any thoughts from those who have tried.

 

Yeah, exactly. Seems like a solution in search of a problem with digital chains like ours. But, MY audiophile nervosa still has me wondering! LOL at the expensive comment too, so true!

 

Sorry, I really 'forgot' about the IIS (I2S?) part of it ... does converting super-clean USB to super-clean I2S REALLY make a difference ???!!! I'm NOT a 'bits is bits' sort of person, I'll try things that are wacky at times ... and have spent not too stupid money on probably stupid things.

I don't know if it worth hassling with all the settings to get the DDC to sync up with the DAC ... but I'll probably try it sometime. Altho again, will a $65 DDC provide the same 'benefit' as the much more expensive Iris or whatever? Sheesh. I don't think I have the hearing acuity to tell the difference, tbh.

 

I purchased a Gaia to use with my Terminator a couple years ago. At the time, I was using a Bryston BDP-2 streamer connected using AES3. Adding the Gaia connected to the DAC using a $12 HDMI cable for I2S was a noticeable improvement - more noticeable than any cable change I've made.

I've since made a number of further upgrades, but other than the switch to a Terminator Plus, none of these upgrades were as significant as adding the Gaia and switching to I2S. To be honest, I haven't experimented with removing the Gaia from my current setup - Sonore Signature Rendu SE -> AQ Diamond USB -> Gaia -> Tubulus Argentus I2S -> Terminator Plus. Gaia clock inputs are connected to the T+ using DH Labs D750 digital cables.

 

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing. I'm interested in any thoughts from the group on that too.

 

Lavorgna has a review on his site about a Denafrips DAC he liked, and he specifically mentioned I2s as the best sounding input. There may be some kind of difference in how that input is implemented that accounts for the difference - better isolation or something. I remember reading similar comments about I2s from other sources too. I know that the T2 handles USB differently than, say AES. Hard to keep track of all of the variables. And harder to parse comments from people who point to one variable and proclaim, "THIS is the reason!" Is it?

 

Here you go getting me all curious about the Gaia again... Thanks for sharing your experience, glad it was a substantial improvement for you.

 

I also wanted to add, which transports or cd players that have been so far reported as "compatible" with the Denafrips DACs and that don't present any micro click or noise artifacts via coax? So far i've seen mentioned:

Jay's Transport
Marantz CD6006

any others?

 

I had no problems with Ares 2 and Audiolab CDT 6000. I have since moved on from both.

 

I have a ZENmini, will make sure the Denafrips is on the coax output for a while and report back … I have not heard anything amiss in the 10 hours I’ve been playing it, but I’ve changed between USB, coax, and optical connections.

I’m going to use the USB or maybe I2S input (with DDC) for the long term though.

 

I don't think that the micro-skipping issue can be tied to specific devices, if the problem is as I understand it.

The problem occurs when using a source-clocked digital connection (e.g. SPDIF, AES3 or Toslink) where the clock in the source has a frequency that does not match the frequency of the clock in the DAC by a large enough error. The clock from the source is used to clock data into a FIFO in the DAC, while the clock in the DAC is used to clock it out. If the error is too large, the FIFO will overflow or underflow, causing the glitch.

I suspect the problem is less common with higher-end sources and higher-end DACs since these devices are likely to have higher precision temperature-controlled clocks. But the clocks in even lower-end gear will likely be close enough to avoid the problem. It is the rare instance where the clock in one device is at the low end of the range and the clock in the other device is at the high end.

 

I use a Cambridge Audio Azure 651 CD player as transport via coax into my Ares II without any clicks, noise, or skipping.

I've been off this thread for a while and didn't even realize this was an issue.

 

Jaytor, Did you upgrade in the Denafrips line to the T2? Curious if you have any experience on how significant the jump from Pontus 2 to T2 would be, SQ wise, enjoyment wise. Upgraditis will come at some point - and when it comes, it is a son-of-a-b to shake.

 

I started with the Terminator (early 2020 version), added the Gaia in early Jan 21, and then upgraded to the Terminator Plus as soon as it became available in Feb 2021.

Adding the Gaia and switching to I2S was the biggest improvement. Going from the Terminator/Gaia combo to the Terminator Plus/Gaia combo took it a bit further but the Terminator/Gaia combo was already damn good. I've heard more expensive DACs from DCS, MSB and Esoteric, but I'm not sure if I would characterize them as "better". Definitely more detail, but the Denafrips DACs are super smooth and easy to listen to.

I don't have any experience with the Terminator II or any of the lower end models.

 

I don’t believe the microskip was ever fixed. I lived with it for awhile hoping they would fix it but eventually gave up and sold the denafrips. It’s definitely a huge oversight considering I’ve never experienced that from another product and weirdly ignored by the company. Otherwise I probably would have kept the ares as I liked the presentation and sound. Can’t say I’d buy another product from them due to that experience. Oh well, most people don’t seem to have a problem.

I ended up getting a new cd transport and a schiit multibit dac which also sounds good. Can’t compare as it’s not back to back.

 

I was on a British Audiophile's zoom today as I'm a patron and like his work. He now personally owns a Venus and did a review of the Iris reclocker noting improvements in the sound of his previous Pontus II. Later, when he got the Venus which uses the same reclocker as the Iris, he said he figured the Iris would be unnecessary. Wrong. He noticed an improvement in the Venus using the Iris so he keeps it in the system. That was interesting.

 

Good thing I got my Pontus II 12th in black … it’ll better match the Iris.

In the meantime I’ll try my $65 USB to I2S Converter … but it likely doesn’t have the TCXO clock the Iris has.

 

Well, I bought an Iris. Hey, got $35 off with the Loyalty Rewards ... We'll see what happens ...

 

Thanks for the suggestion (A British Audiophile) https://www.youtube.com/@abritishaudiophile7314/videos?app=desktop
Pontus II review https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=NA9GD7arBlw
Iris w/ Pontus II (OK I decided to purchase one after watching this)
OMG ... Venus vs. Pontus II https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zw4l69HCA0 (just watching ... )

 

I would like to heat the outcome. I guess the preferred connection to your DAC would be I2S.
As I understand it you will have to get in the settings and configure the the DAC for the I2S connector. If not bad sound will occur. heh.

 

Yes, I went thru the steps with my cheap DDC and Topping DAC. It finally put out sound, but I had to reverse L/R connections ... never heard 'bad sound' or noise, as is the warning apparently. Of course start with very low volume.

I can't say I heard a difference with that combo, yes, using I2S connection. Of course the $65 DDC doesn't have the fancy clock like the Iris. I don't know if I'll even hear a big difference, and it'd be hard to switch back and forth with any 'fidelity' ... but at least I'll know I have the best setup ... until the upgrade jones hits me again that is.

I tend to make changes, and even if I don't hear improvement immediately, just let it ride. Certainly there are moments where something strikes me as extraordinarily amazing in the sound and music. Makes it all worthwhile.

 

Finally sold my Ares 2 in order to try something new.

I didn’t have any qualms with the sound quality of the Ares. However, after living with a friend’s Marantz HD-DAC1 for a few weeks I decided it might be worthwhile to try a similar design.
So I have a pre-owned Electrocompaniet ECD2 en route.

One reason I chose the Electrocompaniet is that my reference preamp has uncommonly low input impedance, and according to Stereophile, the ECD2 has a “bomb proof” output stage. The Ares has too high an output impedance to mate well with my Topping A90D pre. The pairing was causing a popping sound through my speakers when I switched tracks. Since the Topping is an incredible sounding preamp, I decided it’s easier to find a new DAC. Were it not for that issue I would’ve kept the Ares.