Did they do a second reissue of OJC jazz albums before the reissues that cropped up the last 10 yrs?

OJC vinyl reissue question

 

Was there a question?

 

Can you give an example of a title that has more than one distinct pressing in the "original" run era ('80s-early '90s)? I'm no expert but I've done a fair bit of research over the past few years and bought many OJCs online and in stores (sticking to the pre-21st century pressings almost exclusively), and I don't think I've ever come across a title that has both an earlier "GH" master as well as a later Phil DeLancie cut--all the ones I've seen have been one or the other.

It seems like that was the OPs question but it never really got answered.

 

An easy one to pick off would be Sunday at The Village Vanguard or Waltz for Debbie. Imagine how many times that has been repressed and new mothers/stampers made over the years. It was immed. noticeable as soon as they started pressing from the new remasters. I used to frequent a vinyl jazz retailer during that period & the owners were both audiophiles and had a decent system in the store (Linn LP12, Audible Illusions preamp, DMC Timeframe speakers). Many of us had stocked up on the OJCs over the years because of their excellent value. The OJC reorders they received started sounding etched in a sourced from digital way and were not the same product as those of the '84 era vintage.

 

Nothing etched about it. Philip has confirmed that they continued using tape well into the 90s and theres been old 80s OJC metalwork that were still used in the 2000s onwards, so this digital hysteria is just ridiculous.

Have we learned nothing since MFSL?

 

OK. I wasn't around back then (well, I was but not old enough to be collecting records) so I can't speak to the changes that you witnessed over the course of the "original" OJC era. I do have a few dozen of those old OJCs and as far as I recall they all follow a familiar pattern--the ones before a certain point (around 1987 I think?) all have "GH" and minimal other markings in the deadwax. I have a few higher-number titles from back then and they don't have GH but usually have the G1 (Carrollton) and otherwise similarly minimal markings to the earlier pressings. These (always?) have "Remastered by Phil DeLancie" and a barcode on the back cover. As to whether these are digital and/or sonically inferior overall I can't say, although one I can think of off the top of my head--Eastern Sounds--sounds really good.

But what I've never seen is a later, but pre-21st century, repress of a GH-era title--are you saying that there's a late '80s/early '90s Waltz for Debbie pressing out there that has an entirely different master than the 1985 version? Does it have distinctive deadwax markings or any differences to the back cover credits?

 

Sorry but I don't have different pressings at hand. I can only comment on what we were hearing at that time - those early 90s and later pressings are not the same SQ. I can't remember when we first noticed it but it was late 80s - early 90s. As I mentioned people I knew who ran a busy jazz record store were commenting on it as well. If those were as good no one would be paying the $30-$100 that the earlier OJCs often sell for when the title is still in print. Many comments on different forums support that idea.

Pick a couple of your favourite early 80s OJCs and buy a more recent copy that was remastered by DeLancie and make your own comparison. You don't need my $5k cartridge or golden ears to hear the difference.

 

They may be slightly different, because they are different cuts, that doesnt mean worse. The only reason you think they are worse is because youve got some bias thinking they are digital, Phil DeLancie recuts and because they have barcodes on flimsier covers.

 

I think it's better to go to with verified info such as that from our host, the emails back and forth between Hobish and DeLancie that are buried in the forum, etc. than rumors. I'm talking about "old" OJCs here not stuff recut in the last ten years. Even some of the later recuts may be analog depending on the specific title according to Anne Marie Suenram (she worked with George Horn before he died). It's a shame we don't have a definitive list or whatever but it is what it is.

One thing I have noticed in the jazz scene are that there is tons of misinformation and false rumors around various pressings and reissues, accusations of "digital" and even "remixing" when there is none. Joe Harley had to correct someone on this recently in fact.

Bottom line is that different cutting engineers will cut things differently, EQ things differently, etc. during mastering. Even the same mastering engineer might do a recut differently to one they did a few years prior.

 

OJC cut most of their records pretty flat with little EQ though.

 

When I was in music retail back in the 80's and 90's, our salesman for all things Fantasy, said they ran a pretty cheap operation, but were pretty quality conscious.
Using old metal parts if they were serviceable was mentioned.

 

So, to understand what you're saying it's completely inate bias and I didn't know what the hell I was listening to on my LP12 with ARC SP8 & Classic 60 tube gear? And apparently it includes ALL of my friends, incl. record store owners who bought them. Ok bud, you go with that.

 

You were the one who mentioned digital when that evidently was not happening in the early 90s. So everyone who assumed that was clearly mistaken. Whats probably happened is that the later cuts may be a tad brighter and cut slightly less loud, making for unfair comparisons ontop of those other biases.
The only way to make a case at this point is to post samples of both to show one is worse and not just slightly different. Throwing around anecdotes of poorly controlled listening comparisons made 30 years ago wont cut it, sorry.

 

What I'm saying is that I've never seen an earlier (GH, early/mid-'80s) OJC title that was then remastered by DeLancie (according to the back cover credits) and reissued in the later '80s/'90s. Everything I've seen has been either/or. If the claim is that the later (DeLancie/possibly digital) titles sound worse than the earlier GH ones, that's one thing, but I've never seen evidence that they remastered the *same* titles in the original OJC era.