Discogs: Leave negative feedback or give seller a chance to make it right?

Great info, especially in regards to the shipping reimbursement, would have been helpful with a recent issue I had with a record from Australia. Thanks for taking the time to write that up.

 

I had a situation on Discogs where I was buying a $10 CD. The seller had hundreds of feedbacks as buyer and seller. After I sent the funds, the seller refunded my money and said the item was unavailable. They sent an email saying they were playing around with their inventory and it was a mistake. I was fine with that ... at first. Within a day or two, I see that the seller has the exact same item listed at double the price.

I was pissed and didn't even bother contacting them but just left negative feedback. The seller tried to claim they offered me the CD at just a slightly higher price (they didn't) and that I "Didn't read seller terms. No shipping in Alaska or Hawaii." even though I don't live in either, concluding with an email: "Your such a tool. I explained to you the listing was a error as I thought my inventory was offline, apologized for my mistake & even offered you first crack at it when I actually listed it (for a measley $1 more). I'm not a record store genius, did you even read the terms? Get bent Richard, lol."

So, this seller is either an idiot, a liar or both and the negative feedback was well deserved IMO. The salty response, which I did not reply to, made it even more obvious.

 

All due respect, but if all your records are NM or better it would seem that you wouldn't be the best source of information for this subject. I'm just sayin'.

 

Weird take. Sorry I bothered to provide knowledge and experience to this topic. I'll know better next time. Cheers.

 

If some thankless individual prefers to live in ignorance, that's one way to go. The Ignore List is a handy feature.

 

If you'll take the time to go back and read your response you might detect a bit of a condescending tone. Maybe it was unintentional, but it's there none the less. I appreciate someone sharing their knowledge and I'm okay with a little constructive criticism. But I don't particularly care for being talked down to. Remember earlier on when I noted that it, "depends" and you said it didn't. A little brittle but okay, but then you proceed to repeatedly note how it "depends" on this or that. You also said you thought I was just looking for an excuse to buy a nicer cart. I'm not sure how you can read my mind. Then you proceeded to tell me how I should replace all my non-NM albums without knowing anything about my collection. I could go on, but maybe that's enough to get you to reflect a little bit about your approach to discussing the subject. You mentioned that people get offended when their equipment is questioned. Maybe, it has something to do with how you communicate your thoughts to others? Think about it.

 

Boys, boys…

 

Well, maybe poor form, I don’t know, but since my speakers just arrive a few weeks ago I’m working my way through some purchases I’ve made since January, and a “Near Mint” Radiohead first press of amnesiac was so far from near mint I couldn’t bite my tongue. I had messaged the seller when it first arrived that visually nothing about it was near mint and he kept ensuring that it played amazing, his personal collection he played 3 times maybe over 20 years etc etc… I tried to be polite and just inform him that I understand the circumstances of time are strange but all I’ve done is put it through the VPI 16.5, put it in mofi sleeves, and play it once, but all the accusations started flying about switching out the record or just hammering it hard for 5 months then trying to return it. I get it, I should have been pushier in the beginning, and I’m probably in the wrong, but after they blocked my messages and insulted me I’ve gone ahead and opened a PayPal ticket.

 

Huh? None of that was in my post. You're way, way off-base, sorry.

I took a good amount of my time to answer (at length) your questions for your benefit (certainly not mine!) - this community is about sharing knowledge and experiences with others. I've learned plenty over the 11 years I've been here and try to give back by educating fellow music lovers when the opportunity presents itself. I took the time to elaborate quite a bit on the theoretical, which factors come into play, how, etc, then threw in my own experiences. Being dismissive of that acquired knowledge and experience, then throwing baseless accusations in response is not what this community is about.

I recommend rereading my post with an open heart and mind instead of injecting feelings of persecution into it. Had you given me the benefit of the doubt and asked for clarification, I would've gladly reassured you the way you took my post was merely a misinterpretation likely borne out of the limitations of how tone is communicated through the written word... but you instead chose a different way to respond.

Burning bridges with people who go out of their way to help is a philosophy I don't quite follow nor ascribe to. Take care.

 

All I said was that perhaps since all your albums are NM that maybe you aren't the best source. The implication being that someone that had albums in VG, VG+ shape and tried different carts / stylus might have more experience with what worked and what didn't. You're the one that got all in a huff. But since you bring it up go back and look at your comment when I simply said that a 2m Red was a good cart. You mocked me with that response and I ignored it, took in in stride and asked for clarification of what you meant. That kind of set the tone. Maybe you don't realize how you come across on some of your posts?

 

Moving on.

I can understand a big disparity between buyer and seller grading impressions when different carts are used. I'm not sure how we deal with that. Personally when I buy from DISCOGS I translate seller grades one step down in my expectations. If a NM plays VG+ I'm okay. If a VG+ plays higher end VG okay. But if a NM plays VG or a VG+ plays low end VG then I have a problem. Perhaps that will compensate for the differing gear?

If groove damage has occurred as a result of playing on a worn out stylus or misaligned cartridge of course there's no fixing that. However there are some that argue a micro line stylus will be more forgiving than a conical or typical elliptical. As I understand it they believe if the damage was done in the upper portion of the groove wall (as might occur with a conical or even some elliptical stylus) the profile of the micro line would be such that it wouldn't come into contact with that upper wall and instead go further down into the groove and get it's signal from undamaged areas. Obviously result would vary considering all the possible variables involved. Specifically the AT VM95LM and 540LM have been the carts that I've seen the most discussion about. Here is a link to that thread.
Praise for the AT-VM95ML

 

Forgot to mention, the fellow who insists his Radiohead album was silent and called me a liar said his table is a fluance rt85 which comes with an ortofon 2m blue, so yeah elliptical vs ml could be what the issue is, and I even suggested that could be the case as to why we are grading his record so differently, but again I’ve been insulted and blocked so can’t really discuss it anymore haha

 

Did I ever state I didn't experiment, that all my albums were always in NM condition, and that I always had great gear from the get-go? No, I did not. In fact, the opposite is true in each case.

The reason you got upset is because you keep making assumptions; about my experience, my tone, what I meant, that a cart you never used was nice, etc. It's a pattern that's repeated constantly.

See what I mean?

I thought the description that an $85 cart known for being a poor tracker and therefore producing IGD is nice was generous which is why it was humorous. That's it. Once again, you read more into this than there was.

Your tagline is "(I) know enough to know how much I don't know" yet you presume, assume, and jump to conclusions about innocuous posts regularly, and as a result, needlessly feel belittled, mocked, and who knows what else. I'm sorry you feel persecuted but to be frank, that's on you. This ain't Twitter. I was never out to "get you" - I was helping a fellow member with some questions.

This has been a deflating and disappointing exchange that I'm bailing out of. The last word is yours if you need it but I won't read it. Life's too short.

 

When money isn't quite as tight, hopefully by late summer I'll probably get a AT VM95ML, not a huge expense, $169 or so but I'll need to pick up a sled and an alignment gauge to so a little over $200. When I do I'll try some comparisons between it and some of the other cartridges I have, an Ortofon Super OM 10, Pickering V-15 Micro IV with a Stanton 890E stylus and a Shure V-15 Phase II. All of those are ellipticals so it will be interesting to see if the micro line at least in some cases can change a play grade that much.

 

Curious as well what you think, I haven’t compared myself to be honest, I was just giving him an out that it wasn’t a bad job of grading by him if it wasn’t his fault. He’s now threatened that if I don’t drop this case with PayPal that he’s going to report me as a predatory eBay user and went on to say I just wanted to return this because they came out with a new pressing (Kid A Mnesia, released 3 months prior to the purchase mind you.) I still have the message with the pictures I sent him the first day I received it mind you, my biggest regret was just not opening a ticket with PayPal then when he refused to do anything based on my visual grading

so I guess how that I’ve sufficiently hijacked thread, my advise to op and future people is give them one chance and if they don’t jump to resolve the opportunity negative feedback them to hell and file a claim

 

UPDATE: Well the new copy arrived and looking at it I did not have high hopes. It was very dirty and looked like it had been run over by an office chair. However, after a thorough vacuum cleaning, it plays totally free of noise and with zero groove wear distortion. Amazing for a 50 year-old LP. It just goes to show how difficult it is to determine what a record is going to sound like by inspecting it visually. Buying used records is a total crap shoot. But I guess that is part of what makes it fun. A win like this provides a nice rush.

 

This is great to hear!!!!!! I just shake my head when I have friends say they've never cleaned a record, just put it on and play. So much of that SN associated with LPs is a simple fix with a cleaning. It's those records that still have issues after that that drive me crazy. The struggle is real but you got a win today!!!!

 

I'm probably done with Discogs as a place to buy CD's at this point. Bought what was supposed to be the Japan pressing of Diana Ross & Supremes 20 Greatest twice now and was sent a club version both times, once by someone in England of all places. Have also asked at least 5 different sellers who listed under the Japan pressing of the similar Marvin Gaye title if their disc was in fact the Japan pressing and of the 3 that actually replied, all 3 said no. In other words, you can't trust the Discogs listings AT ALL.

 

Now now @Duke Fame, we can't go painting with such a broad paintbrush. If you were buying from the right sellers, such as myself and others I'm aware of, you would be getting exactly what it's listed under.

 

That’s par for the course. One of the issues with Discogs is that a lot of releases have variants which aren’t the same mastering/year/pressing plant/etc. people will add say a 1C variant to an LP when the Discogs listing is for the 1A pressing. I disagree that they should be on the same listing. Recently I ran into the issue where I’m trying to find a double RL mastered copy of the Doors s/t. I’ve asked several sellers who have theirs listed under the RL listing which itself is a variant of a non RL master, and only one has had a half RL. The rest either didn’t respond or had no idea what I was talking about.

Buying from discogs can be great if you find someone who knows what they’re selling, grades accurately, etc. that’s hard to find though.

 

Biggest issue I've run into are with represses, especially when the repress is on 180g vinyl, and the og is on 200g, ran into this with Muddy Waters- Folk Singer. There were a ton of copies available on Discogs, but it was very difficult finding an actual 2015 200g copy.

 

That one is a bit more understandable but I agree, very annoying. I’ve been buying some Classic Records Blue Notes from the mid-late 2000s when they did the 200g Tip on jackets with the gold stereo sticker like the originals. Almost every single one ends up being a 90s version with the standard jacket. Quite frustrating when I already have the 90s versions of some of them and then end up with a duplicate. I always ask to see photos at this point when there’s any other versions it could possibly be confused with. I don’t trust discogs sellers most of the time!

 

I recently purchased an ARS Abraxas, listed as NM, I questioned if it was NM and mentioned I'd had a bad run of luck with LPs graded as NM recently. The seller ensured that this is from their collection, they are an audiophile themselves, and did a playtest again after I asked and it was indeed NM. Received it, doesn't even pass visually as NM (hairlines, sleeve scuff, a couple scratches.) Talked to them, will be returning it for refund if it doesn't play excellent.

 

And just to give my story some closure, I left the guy glowing feedback. He came through for me and ultimately delivered what was promised, so I saw no reason not to.

 

You’d (maybe) be surprised the amount of records I buy from the classified on here that are graded “VG+” or “VG++”, even sometimes “NM-“ and they’re borderline VG/G+ on playback. I’ve come to accept that I’m either overly picky, or a good portion of even people who consider themselves audiophiles, have no idea how to properly grade, or just straight up lie about it. I seriously send back around 50% of my online purchased records… perhaps more!