Does HDCD make a noticeable difference?

Side Of The Road isn't even on the HDCD version-bit puzzled by that.

I'm not sure that quoting a lot of figures means much-as ultimately I think the best version (the Blu Ray)is one that has as good or slightly better DR figures than the MF version-according to the Unofficial DR Database.

I can assure you the HDCD version doesn't sound harsh or compressed on my system. I've explained quite clearly what I hear.

And with all due respect you've made an assumption about me that your means of debate-the DR figures actually disproves what you've said.

I actually prefer the version with the lowest DR ratings but as I say I don't think it is just as simple as that.

 

Well there you go we are comparing apples and oranges.

For me personally as much as I do listen to headphones whilst travelling/walking whatever I much prefer the experience of listening to a good system in a reasonably big room.

The detail and soundstage effect is a far greater experience for me than through headphones and it is much nearer to a live experience which I would think is often close to what an artist wants to project.

 

Side of the Road is on the HDCD version. The MFSL has an extra track of Ship in the Bottle.

The Blu-ray listing is only for the multichannel mix on the DR database. I assume that the stereo mix has the same compressed mastering as the HDCD/DVD-A. If it doesn't, please let me know and I will probably buy it.

How does the DR figures disprove what I said about the MFSL CD being less compressed sounding than the HDCD?

 

It's not that apples and oranges. I'm listening to high end headphones at home as dedicated listening. I'm not listening with portables on the go while walking around.

When I comment on mastering or recording qualities here I try to remember to mention that I use headphones as a courtesy. Because headphones and speakers are somewhat different and can lead you to focus on and prioritize different aspects of the sound. Modern high end headphones excel at delivering detail and can compare in that aspect with very costly speakers. It's the soundstage and tonal balance and bass impressions that are going to be different compared to speakers. High end headphones with the right gear can approach the soundstage experience of a nearfield speaker setup, just on a smaller scale. With the good headphone gear the sound does exist outside of your head and not trapped in the headphones.

 

You are correct on the Side Of The Road my apologies got mixed up with Ship.

I can't run my Blu Ray on the DR software I have an iMac.

For the price I would buy the Blu Ray anyway-it's not expensive.....

You made a statement about what you perceived my preference to be which I don't agree on-I have plenty of compressed discs and of course it depends on the music-in some cases it is horrifically badly done.
You've made an assumption about the stereo layer-we don't know. Why they would split their approach over the two layers would be a mystery to me but it may come down to finances.

I gave you the analogy between how I hear SACD and the MF disc-the MF disc sounds pretty flat to me-it may well just be a matter of taste but as I say I think it may be slightly system dependent and personal tastes. Nobody would say SACD in general was bright and edgy and now my system has went up a few levels I would say in the main I prefer SACD layers to the CD ones indeed I certainly don't think about changing it.

I simply don't hear any benefit on the MF SC that's all.

 

It's Apples and Oranges to me I simply don't enjoy the headphone experience I have a pair of Grado's and I never use them.......I don't doubt if that's your preferred listening approach you are adept at hearing differences within it. For me I prefer the HDCD presentation of this recording over the MF and the BR over the HDCD.

 

Sorry to assume your mastering preferences. I will avoid doing so in the future. Many multichannel mixes have way better dynamic range than the stereo mixes on the same discs. It all comes down to the mastering. I doubt that Universal would remaster the stereo mix for the Blu-ray. They probably just used the hi-res mastering from the DVD-Audio version, but I would love to be proved wrong.

 

I just ordered the Blu-ray audio version of "Sea Change". I'm curious about its sound. Willing and curious to explore these things, even though I think the MFSL CD presents the music sublimely.

It's also my first Blu-ray Audio disc. It's going to be interesting to figure out how to rip it so I can play it through my computer setup.

 

Grados are very headphone sounding. And I don't mean that as a compliment. I just listened to a few tracks from the MFSL Sea Change using my Grado SR325is. The sound is blobby around the ears. Doesn't have the depth and holographic 3D sound that I was describing. Vocals are sometimes shouty and presented forward which makes them trapped inside my head instead of escaping my head. Not at all like the way I described the sound in my earlier impressions when using my good headphones. A totally different sonic experience compared to my good headphones. If Grados are all you've used then I can understand why you headphone listening unappealing. For soundstage and layering there are better headphones out there. Grados have their plusses, but layering and soundstage aren't among them.

 

I have the remastered Anthem of the Sun HDCD. I just listen to it redbook. No idea what to play it on. Sounds fine.

 

Anthem of the Sun doesn't make use of any of the HDCD features
HDCD: peak extend: none, transient filter: none, gain: none
There's nothing to decode. No reason to use a HDCD capable DAC to play it if you have a good non-HDCD DAC.

 

Why would it have HDCD on its cover?

 

Because the Pacific Microsonics converter was used.

 

Does the Dead hdcd mentioned in post #186 lose resolution if un-decoded?

 

No, since there's nothing to decode.

 

Thank you. Honest I really didn't know.

 

Maybe he's given up on CD releases now so doesn't bother with encoding them using the HDCD system. Remember, he's heavily into high resolution music now which is his main goal. I think if Neil could have his own way he wouldn't release any of his albums on CD at all. We all know what he thinks of the CD. It's just he knows that a non-CD release could affect sales quite badly.

Le Noise was released on high resolution Blu-ray audio as well and as an app for an iPhone or iPad which I guess is also in high resolution. These would've been in either 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz knowing Neil Young. These are probably the releases of Le Noise that he cares about the most.

I have the HDCD CD/DVD-Audio edition of his 2004 Greatest Hits package. The DVD-Audio is 24/96 PCM and sounds a lot better than the HDCD CD version, so I can see where he's coming from regarding CDs. There was more dynamic range on the DVD-audio as well, but that wasn't the only difference. It just sounded more crisper and had more ambience than the HDCD CD edition did.

 

Le Noise isn't a high res recording and master, at least according to Neil's standards. The recording is processed. Bits and pieces are sampled, looped, echoed, multiplied, cut and pasted, moved down an octave or more, etc. Lots of processing. And some of that processing lowers the resolution. I can't recall what the final resolution of the recording was (I read about it somewhere). Parts of it are likely less than 24/96. The "low resolution" of the recording could explain why it was decided to not do HDCD. Or maybe Daniel Lanois didn't have a Pacific Microsonics converter in the studio where Neil recorded the album? Could be a variety of reasons for it not being HDCD.

Even though Le Noise isn't "high res" it is still awesome in its own way. Sonic awesomeness.

edit: Here's a NY Times article about the recording of Le Noise. It doesn't go into detail, but does explain that it is very processed to get that sound.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/arts/music/27young.html

 

When you say it isn't a high rez recording, what do you actually mean... that the multi-tracks and the mix down were both analogue? It can still be transferred to high resolution digital for release. Like I said, it's available in high resolution on Blu-ray audio and as an app for an iPhone or iPad. It was either recorded and/or mixed in either digital (not sure what bit and sample rate) or recorded and/or mixed in analogue. Either way, there has been a high rez release of Le Noise.

 

I couldn't remember where I had read that info. Jogged my memory along with a little google-foo and I found it.
The info about Le Noise is in an interview with Neil Young over at Computer Audiophile about Pono.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/572-pono-or-oh-no-interview-neil-young/comments2.html
And some followup posts by Neil (aka bernardshakey) in the forum in a thread about the interview
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...cle-pono-or-oh-no-interview-neil-young-19804/

Le Noise was originally recorded at 24/48. Then re-recorded (I guess to tape) and bumped up to 24/96 for the DVD and Blu-ray. So the 24/96 on the DVD and Blu-ray has been upsampled of sorts, isn't true 24/96.

 

Various Versions VoicED:

The HDCD filter 'improvED' the digital playback of all 16/44.1 disc at-the-time [over standard "at-the-time" 16 bit DAC's].
HDCD predatED HiRez physical media.
HDCD didn't cost a penny more for 'us' per disc.
Many Mid-Fi & Hi-Fi players of-the-day includED it.

And it's still a way too sometimes get better sound from CD; sooooo... we're* in too it!

* sic, sic, 'philes.

 

You don't need to be sorry.

I think ultimately what this would come down to us hearing the versions in either of our systems that would be interesting to hear if we held the same stance. I will explore the wider aspects of this if I get the chance over the weekend by listening to a few discs-would be interesting to me if there is a similar example to Sea Change you could quote and I would see if I have the discs to A/B-like you I'm a big Miles fan but I have quite a few discs in multiple versions.

 

I have Grado SR125 which are well below the ones you have-I bought them at a time when my kids were a bit smaller and my system didn't get used much-I've upgraded my system since then and listen more-the kids suffer.

Would I like to hear a pair of real class headphones? Yes I would but my preference is based on my lifetime of listening to music in the open-it's what I love-I like everything about it.

Be interesting what you make of the Blu Ray....

 

Well, Neil Young - Greatest Hits HDCD is soft-limited & encoded with Peak Extend feature, thus, requires a decoder to get full dynamic range of its content. The TT DR values of the HDCD-decoded & DVD-V discs are virtually identical (the DVD-V material is, however, ~3dB louder). Both discs sound good, but I most likely won't be able to pass a no-cheat ABX test distinguishing one from the other...

 

The DVD-Audio of Greatest Hits is quieter than the HDCD CD version of Greatest Hits. I can easily tell them apart every time. You have to switch the volume up a little louder when listening to the 24/96 DVD-Audio version.