Does Hot Vinyl Mastering Increase the Chances for Distortion?

I began collecting "Blue Note originals" several months ago. While the adventure has been quite laborious thus far, it's been worth it. The 10-15 copies I have found that are in good playing condition are a real treat! It's been a lot of hard work finding ones that sound "really good" on my budget, however.

Before I started collecting these, I thought it would be a lot easier to find copies that sounded "good", even if they were graded VG and were really marked up, because I kept reading that they usually "play better than they look".

I agree with the consensus...to an extent. For some reason when these LPs are really marked up, I agree that they do have the potential to play quieter than they look. But this is only with respect to surface noise. I would estimate that at least half of the Blue Note originals (those with the Plastylite "P") that I have come across have had some amount of distortion, which I can only assume is from groove wear.

First question: why are these records typically quieter than your average record when they are really scuffed up? Is it because the vinyl is very durable? If that's the case, you would think the grooves wouldn't wear as much as your average record either, but it seems like they do!

Second question: Is it possible that these record are even more prone to distortion from groove wear because of the hot level at which Rudy Van Gelder cut the master lacquers? This is my novice theory: the greater the amplitude of the wave, the more difficult it is for the stylus to "stay on course", especially at the innermost part of the groove. So while records that are cut hotter have a better signal-to-surface-noise ratio, the downside is that they are more prone to distortion from groove wear...Yes?? No??

 

With mechanical recording there is always a limit to applied level due to the deformation of of the carrier
Thats were the art comes in.

 

I would guess that it's easier to cause wear to a quieter groove, since there's technically less information, more chances for it to get destroyed by a mistracking stylus. But eh what do I know

 

I have found that hot records and hot passages with sibilance issues are more common than the quieter stuff. Whether that is from inherent greater difficulty in tracking the larger amplitude excursions, or from that combined with greater wear on those portions on used records of unknown provenance is hard to say.

And I would tend to say that a record that is a little too quiet seems to be less problematic than a record that is a little too loud, and this goes for brand new records as well as quite old records.

 

nice socks

 

I have the same ones.

 

To your questions:

1) They may not be quieter. It might be that your Shure is not picking up all the noise from the record. MC cartridges tend to pick up far more noise. I have my scuffed up old records that I occasionally play on an old TT with MM cartridge. They play with hardly any noise! Yet, for the brief moment I tried them on my good TT and MC cartridge, they sound like a popcorn machine.

2) I dunno.

 

Stylus profile will also affect the amount of surface noise. What cartridge do you have?

Records that are cut hotter are more prone to mistracking. Repeated mistracking will cause groove wear. A good thread started by Steve here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...d-mistracking-resulting-groove-damage.202512/

Just curious roughly how much you're paying for these on average? You can get RVG masterings for many of them with later non Plastylite pressings.

 

Very interesting. I've read that conical styli can sound better with beat up records but I've never heard about the difference between MM and MC. However, I have played other crummy records with this stylus and the surface noise seems greater...maybe that's because some of them are stereo so the noise is "stereo", opposed to the "masking" of the noise with the mono button on my amp pushed in. Or maybe it's because the other records aren't cut as hot and thus the signal-to-noise ratio is higher...now that I think about it, this is probably the main reason for the noticeable difference in surface noise between these RVGs and other records.

 

I have a Shure M44G.

I've paid on average 50 bucks a pop ($5 being the low, $100 being the high). I will say though that all of these records sound great. I've been through three times as many as these to find copies with minimal or no distortion from groove wear.

I'm aware that the RVG lacquers were used well into the Liberty period (United Artists too?). In my experience, Liberty era New York USA labels are high
quality also (my copy of Search for the New Land is one of these), and I've heard that early Liberty labels are good too. I'm not particular about them being Plastylites, but I do like New York USA labels or earlier (no reason ). I prefer heavier weight vinyl also, and it's clear to me that in general, the further you get away from 1956 the less the record will weigh. Great scientific study on this by my homey the London Jazz Collector here.

 

At $50 average, you're being smart in your odyssey. You can get the records, play them, enjoy them, and if you decide later to sell, you've got a good chance at breaking even. I had a few BN originals along the way, and that's what I did. Spent $10 to $50 a record, played them, kept them a few years, then sold them at break even.

 

Yeah, a couple that I bought even flipped for a profit. I paid 40 bucks for one and sold it a month later for $160!

 

Interesting article. I have original records from the 50's that weigh about 220 grams, but I also have some that weigh in the 120 to 140 range.

 

That's a nice profit. Sounds like you are having fun with the BNs. That's what the hobby is all about. At some point, take one of your BN originals to a friend, or place, with a very high end sound system. That will give you a chance to compare the noise and sound.

 

Remember, that hot masterings are prone to tracking issues, especially with the cartridges available then.

 

That is a pretty good price for some of them. I take it you are using Ebay? I used to buy originals when I found them in the bins here unless they were totally trashed. Sadly I haven't seen any Lexington or NY pressings in years.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but Music Matters have released many Blue Notes in the 45 rpm format. If you haven't heard them, maybe take a flier on one of your favorite albums to see how you like the sound.