I always liked Dokken, and thought they were one of the better hard rock bands of that genre at the time. Solid songwriting. Tooth and Nail and Lock and Key were my favorites, but was never a hardcore catalog fan of theirs. Will be interested to revisit and hear your thoughts.
GEORGE LYNCH TALKS WRITING DOKKEN'S "PARIS IS BURNING" - "THAT STARTED THE ROCKY RELATIONSHIP" Greg Prato at Songfacts recently caught up with guitar legend george Lynch (ex-Dokken) to discuss the new Lynch Mob record, Rebel. They also look back on Lynch's days in Dokken and his part in the songwriting for "Paris Is Burning" from the band#s debut album, Breaking The Chains. Lynch: "That's a song we'd been playing for a couple of years in Xciter. Don (Dokken/vocals) actually approached me to play together in a band with him - he liked that song and wanted to know if I would be interested in performing it in a project in Germany, to try and get a record deal there. I said, 'Of course, why not.' We talked about the deal, and then I never heard from him. So some time later, he approached Mick (Brown/drums and me, to join him in Dokken. I said, 'OK.'" "I was digging and pulled up the contract - I can't remember how I got my hands on it - but I found out that he actually sold two of my songs from Xciter to a publishing company, for something like 25,000 or 35,000 marks (about $15,000). And he listed himself as the author. I was floored. So that started the rocky relationship."
Ah, George and Don never had a great relationship, obviously. I can remember from very early on that things were always kind of strained in the Dokken camp. Then there was the issue of Don's hair and whether it was a wig or not (same time as Kevin DuBrow with Quiet Riot). Hair and Lynch's and Dokken's relationship aside, I can remember the first time I heard Dokken. It was on a French import compilation called Heavy Metal Thunder on Carrere. I didn't know any of the bands except, maybe, Saxon (I cannot remember if I heard them on this comp first or bought Denim and Leather on a lark; either way, it was the very early on that I discovered them). The other acts were Brian Connolly (Sweet), Rage (who I liked), Heartbreak (I have no idea who they are to this day), Demon, and Dokken. Dokken was a band I liked immediately. The guitar pyrotechnics of Lynch were jaw dropping (I think the two tracks on the comp I had were "Nightrider" and "Paris is Burning"). The later track was simply amazing in terms of Lynch's heroics. He's such a GREAT player. I mean, top, upper echelon material. His technique and fluidity was almost unrivaled back then. A controversial opinion: he was better than Eddie Van Halen and, probably, Randy Rhoads. He just flat jammed and could play anything. His picking technique (and how he held the pick) was fascinating to me. Honestly, the rest of the band was pretty much so so and the song writing reflected that. Breaking the Chains is produced badly and what Lynch says is true: it's Dokken's voice above everything else. Dokken was a good vocalist back then and coupled with Lynch's great playing, the band should have been huge, but, unfortunately, a bad relationship between the guitarist and the vocalist hampered the dynamics of the band. In truth, Dokken wasn't a great songwriter and neither was Lynch. Hence the ultimate problem; still, with the great guitar playing and heavy nature of the tunes, Breaking the Chains was pretty cool for back in the day. Still, listening to the songs today, they are pretty middling and the lyrics are dumb. A song like "In the Middle" is a perfect example of this. "In the middle of love". What IS that? I won't even get into how inane the lyrics are of that particular song, but it's embarrassing how little thought was put into the lyrical content of most of the tunes. It's like, "okay, that rhymes, what's next?" Obviously, most hard rock, in this time, wasn't (and isn't) brain surgery, but c'mon! I have no problem believing Dokken's story that Peter Baltes is on bass for this record. I seem to recall reading that somewhere. That said, when Jeff Pilson came aboard to replace Juan Croucier (who would join Ratt), the rhythm section suffered. I've never liked Pilson as a bass player. He's very rudimentary in his playing and, to date, has never played a single bass line I find interesting. He's obviously a pro in that he's played with a ton of bands (Foreigner included), but he's just there. He was that way in concert, too, when I saw them. Just kind of picking/strumming the bass and not doing anything that was interesting. 'Wild' Mick Brown was the same. A hard hitting, basic drummer, but that was it. He was the Jerry Shirley of his time (I got a chuckle when I saw them open for Blue Öyster Cult that Brown's kit was falling apart about halfway through the set. It was either his aggressive style or the drum tech didn't do a good job of constructing the set, but there was a problem). In conclusion, I liked Breaking the Chains as the guitar playing was mind blowing and, frankly, around 1982 it was somewhat hard to find really good hard rock to listen to outside of Van Halen and few other bands if you were in the US. Of course, by 1983, the gates opened significantly, but for a hard rock enthusiast just cutting their teeth with the stuff, good to great albums were hard to find. Often, it meant scouring the import bins to find something. Dokken was a find. Saxon was, too. It was early in the hard rock/metal revolution of the 80's and Breaking the Chains was a revelation, in some sense, for fans like me. I like the album to this day, warts and all (by the way, I think there is merit to what both Don and George say about this release; the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle (and we're back to the again, heh)). More later.
Please don't hate me but I don't own that album Breaking the chains. I think this band is amazing. I did buy Tooth and nail, Under lock and key, and Back for the attack. I found these albums Superior, where I found breaking the chains not as good. I've seen them a couple times in concert and I was never disappointed by them.
I completely forgot what I listed as my favorite groups when I joined this forum. I was just listing names but I had to go back and check and I listed Dokken as one of my favorite bands. They're all time greatest hit in my opinion is In my dreams. This is what a hard-hitting rock band should sound like.
Small thread creep but what did you make of Demon? Deserve to be much better known, I reckon. Made some great records. The Plague, from 1983, is particularly outstanding, like a metalled up Pink Floyd. I was lucky enough to finally see them live last year. Only one original member but still brilliant.
When I hear Wild Mick it always amazes me that he doesn't get the recognition as one of the best drummers in heavy metal.
I like them. Probably The Plague is my favorite album. Always a bit prog oriented. They remind me a tad of Marillion and a lot of Magnum.
Agreed. Their two most recent albums Unbroken (2012) and Cemetery Junction (2016) are very creditable late career efforts.
So, who's better Eric Carr or 'Wild' Mick? Both have been espoused by you as the 'best drummer in heavy metal'? Ooo Ooo Ooo! Got to Choose !
By the way, I was listening to "Paris is Burning" this morning while doing the lawn. A couple of things: I do not think that is a live recording and have never thought so. It just doesn't sound like a live cut. It's too perfect. Secondly, I believe, that's a tune Don did play rhythm guitar on live and, if memory serves, Lynch hated it when Don played guitar. He wanted to be the only guy playing so there was no mistake who was doing what. "Paris" is a great song, though. A great melody to it and it's really put together well, but the lyrics are dumb. Now, I'm a guy that almost never listens to lyrics in a song. So, if I notice bad lyrics? They're bad !
I read an interview back in the 80's where Lynch said Don needed to improve on being a front man and interacting with the audience, and Lynch didn't think Don could do so while playing guitar.
I did say "one of the best" Best drummer is hard to say as there are a lot of amazing players out there. I'm not a huge Anthrax fan but Charlie Benante is phenomenal. I can tell you some of my favorites who I think are worthy of being in the best category: Eric Carr Eric Singer (I was a huge fan before he joined KISS) Wild Mick Brown Bobby Rondinelli Stefan Schwarzmann Cozy Powell Tommy Aldridge Ian Paice Randy Castillo Scott Rockenfield Outside of metal: Jack Lawrence-Brown Nick Radovanovic Zack Alford Budgie Charlie Watts I'd sure I've left dozen's out that I really love...
I agree that George Lynch was one of the very best of his generation. Yes, his pyrotechnics were jaw-dropping. In terms of technique, I don't think it is a stretch to assert he was a better technician than Eddie Van Halen. While I think George and Randy Rhoads are more comparable, I am not sure I can go as far as to assert George was better than Randy. Randy had a very short career, but what he achieved on Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of A Madman was among the best guitar work ever laid down on tape. That said, with respect to George, I do think he was far and above the greatest talent in Dokken. Pilson and Brown were limited, pedestrian players, and Don was a bit of a poser, in both vocal ability and songwriting ability. He played a part and tried to play it well, but I don't think he had the goods and substance to back it up. He was a respectable vocalist in the 80's before he destroyed his voice, but he was never elite. Still, as a band, they had success and created a moderately good body of work (including a handful of great songs) during that era. But they didn't have enough pieces to become one of the best bands in the world. Without George Lynch's guitar work, I would argue this thread wouldn't exist because there would not be enough memorable work from the band to discuss. With respect to the Breaking The Chains album and the mixing controversy, Don's response to George's issues with the album do not really refute what George asserted. Don's position is that the recording work was for a Don Dokken solo album. So what? George said after the band members left Europe, Don had the recordings remixed, substantially altering the presence of Lynch's guitar work. Don doesn't deny it, he simply claims he had every right to do what he wanted because it was initially supposed to be his album, not a band album.
I've often thought that's it's easier to be aware of bad (or at least inappropriate) drumming than good. The subtle stuff that can make a song is so embedded that you only really notice it when you hear a version without it. Kiss have been clever inasmuch as their first two (or three, if you include Anton Figg) drummers suited the music they were making at the time and the drummer they have now is versatile enough to cope with it all. Most of my favourite drummers play folk/rock but within rock music, the two that stand out for me are Carl Palmer, if only for playing the only drum solo in concert that didn't bore me witless and Alan Gratzer, who was unfussy but played stuff that always felt right for the song.
I have zero issue with everything you say. I said “probably” better than Rhoads, but as you say, too limited of a catalog for Randy to make a judgment. Both he and Lynch were and are phenomenal players respectively. Great post, by the way. Yours always are.
Does certainly make you wonder why Breaking The Chains is so subpar. The 1981 live is a better record . Maybe George is correct in saying Don gutted it in the studio after the fact.
I prefer Mick. Better singer and he's got some GREAT drum tracks like "Don't Close Your Eyes," "What Prince," and "Tooth & Nail."
