EAR 834 deluxe too thin – Gold Note PH 10 as a solution?

Doesn't Ear make two versions of this RIAA? Is yours the high end version?

 

Also, buying NOS tubes on eBay was a nightmare. Tried a few times and will never do it again. (Except buying from established companies that are just using eBay as a digital platform)

 

I think so, should be the Deluxe version of the 834. Don't know whether that really translates in better sound.

Btw. I just saw that you are from San Francisco. That amazes me. Firstly, since I love this city. Did an internship there at a German cultural institute on Bush Street, close to Stockton about ten years ago. Lived on Sutter.
Secondly that you buy from a German dealer. But if they are good, there's good reason to buy from them.

 

I hope/guess that it's okay. As I said, when I compared it to the HEED a year ago or so, there wasn't that much difference. Well, but the cartridge was different and maybe the speakers, cannot really say that for sure.
In the meantime I've changed the tubes and switched to the Gold Lions. So maybe that is really the root of all evil . If not I will have to find out where to have it checked.

 

There they are:







First of all, would you say the specifications are okay/good? Anyone here who's got the expertise to judge it???

Then: I did a quick listening session, just a few songs, EAR 834p with new different tubes against the fabulous Gold Note PH-10. I'm puzzled. Different tubes seem definitely to sound different. I not sure whether I can trust my ears, but the EAR with the new tubes sounds better than the Gold Note. Why better/what's different to the sound using the Gold Lions before? Out of a sudden, the bass is back. I'd say it's got 80 maybe 90% of the bass the Gold Note offers. I listend to a couple of songs on both preamps and I couldn't say that the EAR is thinner in sound! What a change. Cannot really believe it. Will have to listen to it again. I'd say the EAR is pretty much equal to the Gold Note as far as "volume" (German => Volumen => don't know the english term for it right now, don't mean loudness) is concerned, but the Gold Note suddenly (that surprises me most!) sounds a little bit dull in comparison. The EAR has got more vivify, intensity. Those voices! Wow. Can this really be true, just from using different tubes?

I need to say thank you again for all your valuable comments, first and foremost of course to Strat-Mangler for his willingness to share his knowledge and tell me which (concrete) tubes to buy. As I said, I'm puzzled/stunned.

Next two steps: Listen to the two amps again, maybe later, maybe tomorrow to see if it wasn't just my condition today that made the sound.
Second: Now that I know that different tubes can definitely make different sound of course I could think about the question whether it would make sense to even buy better/more expensive ones, if that's reasonable => Mullard? But I would need a reliable source and TAD seems not to sell those tubes. Buying from someone on eBay seems like not to be the best idea in this case.

But as I said, first I need to reassure that I'm not fooled by my own expectations etc.

 

Why puzzled? That's the reason I strongly suggested trying NOS tubes in the first place. Current production tubes SUCK! Happy you found a store willing to take the tubes back if you weren't thrilled with them but I knew you would be.

It's a rabbit hole to start tube swapping but definitely worth it. Refer back to this thread for other tubes you can try if you want to experiment. Remember that just changing the V3 tube (closest to the front) has the most effect. You could theoretically just buy one tube to swap in that slot to see whether you like the change.

Glad I was helpful and that you're enjoying the sound, now. Yes, changing tubes can have a huge effect on the sound. Always rewarding to upgrade and be delighted with the change!

 

The gain in the sections seems to be very close, so I think you’re good with these tubes. Don’t be surprised that you don’t hear much of a sound level difference (Deutsch: Volumenunterschied) to the 12ax7 tubes. The difference is only -3 dB. While this means there’s only half as much sound energy, subjectively the human hearing doesn’t perceive it as that much.

BTW the NOS tubes will probably become even better as they break in

 

Glad it is working out for you- l just changed a valve on my Vincent SV-237MK amp to a Gold Lion and the sound got A LOT Better.... let us know how things go there is magic in that 834P

 

Good lo learn that the tubes I got today are good! So I'll keep them I guess.

Interesting. So you went the opposite way? You say the Gold Lions are good in your amp??? My dealer says they are superb. But then something must be really wrong with mine
Maybe I should really try one of them in the middle position if this enhances the sound quality.

 

Yes, it made a big difference for the Wonga a no- brainer a really nice valve

 

Hm, don’t know what was wrong with them in my EAR.

 

You're jumping to conclusions without all the information.

@Andy Saunders didn't state which tube he had in there and for how long it operated. Also, which slot. By the sound of his post, I can probably assume it's the one in the front panel of his amp. I could be wrong but it looks to me like it's a hybrid amp using the front panel one as a tube buffer. That will behave differently than the design of your 834P. Also, don't forget that the same tubes will sound good in one setup but not so great in another. That is the nature of tubes and system synergy.

There's nothing wrong with your preamp. Relax and enjoy your tubes.

 

Good to hear that the new tubes made the Ear sing again.

Just curious; did you compare it to the PH10 on its own, or with the separate PSU?

 

I compared it to the PH-10 without the separate PSU. I do have it here, maybe I'd give it a try before returning it. Doubt hat it changes a lot but well, I also doubted that the tubes could make such a difference

 

Thanks again for your answer. Actually, I was referring to the tubes, not the amp. The amp is fine which has become clear after changing the tubes. It's really like "SHU" said, it sings!

Tubeampdoctor finally answered my mail form last week (the technician was off over the holidays and recommended these two tubes for the EAR if you want to have a rich sound:

ECC83 /12AX7 - Amperex (Philips I65) NOS (Heerlen/NL, 1963-69) -

or

ECC803 S TAD Premium Selected - TAD Vorstufenröhren SELECTED Tube Amp

I asked back if the first ones could be that much better than the ones I got since they are really good (as far as I can judge it).

What I am also wondering, as someone who wasn't into tubes before starting this Thread: NOS Tubes are getting more rare every year (at least that's my understanding if you sell old stuff) and also more expensive. That's why I ask myself if it makes sense to buy maybe one or two sets now to have them available when I need it next time I have to change tubes? But since this will probably the case in 5-10 years, I guess, I'm not sure whether this would be a rational decision. Do you take any precautions on NOS tubes you like or are you relaxed since you will be able to buy them in the future as well (for comparable prices)?

 

If you have the cash, buy NOS tubers for a lifetime. And maybe for your children. The only risk is that you'll have wasted some cash if you move on to another amp at some point.
If you don't invest in NOS tubes, the risk is that you won't be able to get the same quality later on. One can hope that the production of new tubes will get to the same level, but that's a gamble.
I purchased 3 x 4 military grade NOS power tubes for my Audio Note Oto and each set lasts about 10-20 years

 

Remember that they will recommend whatever they are selling so take these recommendations with a grain of salt. It is always best to interact with people who have nothing to gain by recommending an item.

Due to how your system inherently sounds, you won't know which tubes will compliment it best until you try them. Since this tube seller offered you the chance to return them if they are not to your liking, you could take advantage of this and try the first ones. The 2nd ones are current production tubes. Remember what I mentioned a dozen times in this thread about current production tubes, right?

A valid question. Theoretically, the pool of available NOS tubes shrinks ever year but remember that NOS tubes is a niche market. A small percentage of people own tube gear and of those, fewer are interested in spending the money to get the good stuff, either because they don't believe NOS tubes would make much difference or because they don't have the means.

Unless we're talking about very rare and in-demand stock, I wouldn't bother accumulating them until you need them. You might try and prefer a different tube by that time or you could've upgraded to a solid-state phono preamp instead or one using different tube types.

 

You must be younger than me or healthier

Hm, will think about it again!

 

Glad to hear you're enjoying the EAR again.

I think it's a common thing when people are not familiar with tube rolling to be shocked that the actual tubes you use change maybe 70% of the sound. Not 0.1% or something. It's not a subtle thing at all.

 

That's why I always trusted my local dealer I mentioned above. He even rejected my wish to buy a certain turntable from him three weeks ago, since he said it's not a good decision. Buy it somewhere else, I won't sell it to you since I don't believe it's good.

Sounds like a good idea. I asked back why he recommended the Philips tubes for 130,- Euro and not the Siemens (f0r the same money). I'll wait for his reply and then make a decision.

I know, they are not on my list, just mentioned it for the sake of completeness.

That sounds reasonable. Even though I assume that buying NOS tubes like the philips wouldn't be wasted money since I could also sell them in a couple of years without losing money. Well, that's my judgment. May be wrong.

There's one thing I have to solve with my EAR. I don't like that it makes this "hum" sounds. You don't hear it when music is playing, but when there's no music you can hear it, depending on how loud you have turned the amp. I'm not sure how normal this is and I found out that it used to get quieter when I touched the EAR with both hands (even though it didn't go away completely). Since I plugged it in after installing the new tubes touching it doesn't really better the humming sound. I have to find out if relocating the EAR makes a difference. It's the EAR because when I connect the Gold Note PH-10 for example, there's no hum at all. Since I don't know any other guy around here with an EAR I cannot say how much hum is normal or when it starts. Maybe my speakers are too good so I can hear everything

 

you can easily get rid of the hum. Either the RIAA is too close to another device or you simply need to ground it. If the hum disappears when you touch it, it's almost certainly because it needs grounding. I'm pleased to tell you that this is very simple to solve.

 

Thanks!

Yes, there's this cable coming from the turntable that you normally connect to the preamp for grounding. I found out that it was better (for a while) not to connect it to the preamp (EAR). I will have to test some different settings to see whether I can get rid of it or at least most of it.

 

Check out the Brimar and NEC tubes I linked to earlier. They are quite a bit cheaper than the Amperex, and afaik the NEC are indeed made in Holland as the print on the tubes says ( which is very often not the case—tubes by the major manufacturers used to be rebranded a lot). Both give you rich sound, with Brimar being slightly warmer.

As for buying a stash, well, that is indeed a valid question. I can only say that I wish that I had done that 10 years ago. And at that time, I spoke to a dealer who said that he wished he had put his pension funds in tubes 10-15 years prior to that. So I have accumulated a small NOS stash to last me my lifetime for the gear I have now and a few of the other common tube types. My hope is that at least I won’t lose money when I sell them again 10-20 years from now. But my aim is not to gain money—as you have experienced, the right tubes are crucial for the performance of tubed gear, and I just don’t want to own gear that may be rendered useless to me in five years time because I can’t afford to buy replacement tubes. I have bought almost exclusively from reputed dealers, and for several of the tube types, the price has gone up since I bought them. Of course, the technology may get disrupted, or the old tubes may start to lose their vacuum. But such is life. If nothing else, I would get a couple of pairs of the NEC tube for backup if I were you.

 

Thanks again for your valuable contribution. I will check the Brimar again. I just saw a video about Brimar tubes yesterday saying that they are really good. But as I have learnt in the curse of this thread: it depends on the amp . But I'm sure they are good. I'm grateful for every recommendation. Btw. I like your approach. Of course I don't want to waste money if they aren't good anymore in a couple of years or lose worth. But as you said, it's life. There's no sense in wasting time and energy on thinking about this too much.

Btw. I just relocated my Preamp and put it one tier (is this the correct word for it) higher in my rack. Before there used to be the Cambridge Audio CXN. The hum is better. But still touching the EAR makes it quieter. It seams as if it's better to have Amp and preamp more separated.

However, when I put the CA CXN where the EAR used to be there's a flickering sound. Not very loud but recognizable.

 

Both the Brimar and the NEC work fine in my 834p. And just to be clear, I don’t expect NOS tubes to suddenly start losing their vacuum anytime soon. On the contrary, they seem to maintain their vacuum better than many new production tubes, and most of the tubes that I’m listening to now are from the early 1960s.