EAR 834 deluxe too thin – Gold Note PH 10 as a solution?

Grounding issues are quite abundant but can be challenging to fix in some cases. Before doing anything else, connect a speaker wire into the appropriate grounding lugs of the 834P and your turntable. Do you still have hum? A lot less? Or did nothing change?

 

Thanks! The problem is, only the EAR has a grounding lug, the grounding wire of the Clearaudio Concept is in one jacket with the cable to connect the turntable to the preamp So firmly connected (you cannot de-connect it from the turntable).
Would have tried it instantly, but the construction is not really allowing this procedure

 

You can connect a speaker wire to the ground wire of the ClearAudio. Connect the other end to the 834P.

 

Ah okay, will try tomorrow. Thank you! Does it matter how long/short the speaker wire is?

 

No.

 

Good. Will try it tomorrow. Too much work today.

Btw. I got an answer from tubeampdoctor. Here's the google translation:

"the 5751 has a little less gain than a 12AX7. In a phono amplifier that could possibly be a little too little.
"Matched" makes sense here, so that the stereo image is symmetrical.
We offer matched tubes for some types, which always refers to couples. If a stereo amplifier has an odd number of same tube types (here 3) then the third tube should be ordered with symmetry selection.
If the sound of NOS like it makes sense to stock up, because more and cheaper will not be ..."


Alright, not sure about the "gain-issue". I didn't have the chance to listen to it that much but I thought it to be loud enough. But as I said, maybe I didn't realize that the amp was louder than it used to be with the other tubes? But actually, I think no. Should be okay. Don't know how fast they "fade away" in terms of gain so that maybe it's an issue sooner than I thought. But not to worried now.

What concerns me more is that they say matched tubes are recommendable. But maybe he doesn't know the EAR well enough (even though he is the expert there) to know that it (according to people here) doesn't need matched tubes?

But what about the "symmetry selection". Anything you would change as far as the tubes I received are concerned?

 

Well, that’s what I was rambling about earlier. Your RCA 5751’s seem to have fairly good triode matching, at least for gain, so no need to worry there, I think. Sorry if you already know this but each 5751 and most other small signal tubes are actually two tubes in one. There are two triodes in each. And in each of its three tubes, the 834p uses one triode for the left channel and one triode for the right channel. So if the triode sections don’t match, you will have a difference between left and right. So yes, I would go for balanced/matched sections. To give you this, tube amp doctor have to go through their stock and measure the sections until they find one with sections that measure within 10% or so of each other. That’s why it costs extra.

 

Thank you! I have to learn a lot these days.
No, didn't know that there is right/left in each tube. But why do they say I just need matched triodes in the third one?

So, normally yes, balanced/matched sections, but in my case (with regard to the ones I got) => no.
Right?

I checked their boxes again and all of them seem to be within the 10% you mentioned.

Edit: Gain seems to be between 65-70. What's "normal" for phototubes since he said it might not be enough?

 

Incorrect. As was discussed previously, it's irrelevant as long as the tubes test as NOS.

When a tube ages, gain is not necessarily what goes first. Oftentimes, people experience what they'll refer to as a colder harsher sound and a more restricted soundstage. So I wouldn't use gain as the benchmark for whether your tubes have aged to the point of needing to be replaced. One verified tube testing as NOS might age quickly and another might age very slowly. And the quick one might've had even higher test results, too! There's no way to tell and is purely the luck of the draw.

Can't say this enough ; stop trusting dealers!

The 5751 does have about 30% less gain than a 12AX7, depending on which tubes are compared. You likely will have less gain using them in a phono preamp and it's up to you to decide whether you nevertheless have enough gain for your system and the SQ is worth it.

There are terrific 12AX7s out there as well so you don't have to limit yourself to the 5751 but the RCA 5751 with black plates will give you terrific SQ. "Better" is a word that gets thrown around a little too easily for my tastes but you might prefer other tubes. Tube-rolling is experimenting with different ones to find which combination will sound best in your system.

In your case, you have different choices such as using a 12AX7 or 5751 in that V3 slot. Also the 12AU7 (or ECC82 as it's known in Europe) can be used in the V3 slot which a lot of 834P users find sounds fuller with a wider soundstage. Mullard makes a good NOS one according to our host. I've never heard it so I can't say.

All depends on your system.

 

Okay, just wanted to ask back since that was the technician of the company giving me that piece of information. The one who was on holiday during the last two weeks and I had to wait for to get reliable information. Since it was contradicting what some people here said I wanted to clarify.

Very interesting. Good to know!

I didn't really notice that is has less gain last time when I listened to my music using them so I would say it's not an issue. Hopefully I'll find the time to listen to some music again tomorrow.

I think they are really good. The are full, rich, warm. That's exactly what I like. My speakers are more the opposite so I don't mind (actually I'm kind of looking for it) when the sound get's a little bit "darker", deeper...

Ah okay, I was struggling with all the different names, so it makes sense now. I thought that all of them are ECC83. I probably will give the 12AU7 a try as soon as I have more time. I really liked what the RCA5751 provided. SQ is most important, not gain.

Alternatives are the Siemens: ECC83 Siemens & Halske NOS - Vorstufenröhren: Doppeltrioden Tube Amp

Or the Philips:
ECC83 /12AX7 - Amperex (Philips I65) NOS (Heerlen/NL, 1963-69) -

Tubeampdoctor recommended the Philips.

 

Yeah, there's the European and American designation for the tubes.

12AX7 / ECC83
12AU7 / ECC82

...and so on.

There are also these derivatives of those major types which can be compatible with your 834P such as the 5751 you bought. There are others. While searching for info on the 834P a couple of years back, I managed to find a page that had all the compatible types for each slot but I unfortunately forget where I located that info.

 

I'd read this:
EAR834 tube rolling
EAR834 tube rolling
Get to your own conclusions.

 

Somehow my post got included in quote. Sorry. It said something to the effect of that you might want to ask tube amp doctor about what kind of triode section balance you can expect if you buy the tubes with the unmatched sections. I consider Koray from nostubestore.com a very trustworthy dealer, and he operates with several grades, and to get 10% or better matching, you have to buy grade A. So ask tube amp doctor

 

It was but you accidentally erased the ] bracket so the quoted passage ended with "[quote"

 

Yes, I just realized :-D

 

Thanks again! Also for the links provided above. Very interesting read! Confirms what has been said here and made me order the Philips Tube linked above. To be honest, personally I would have preferred the Siemens (since for whatever reason I don't like Philips ) for the same money (129,- Euro), but it guess Philips at that time meant really good quality and if it's a good tube as recommended bei TAD, everything should be fine.
So I put it in the middle position.
Next might be a Mullard 4004 for front position but since it's not really available in Germany (at least where I looked for it) it might take some time, which is perfectly fine.

 

So I finally had the time to try it. When I connect the speaker wire to the ground cable of the turntable first, things get worse. Then when I connect it to the preamp it's basically the same as connecting it to the amp directly without the speaker wire.

Anything left I could do? It's really annoying even if it has become better since I placed the EAR higher and so more far away from the amp (Unison Simply Two).

 

Just catching up with this thread - 6 pages late! I have read through it quickly so I apologize in advance if I have missed something and if I am too late to be helpful.

You indicated that you are using the MC setting on the EAR for your Dynavector but tried the MM input and didn't hear much difference. That just doesn't compute. IMO the EAR MC input is completely wrong for your cartridge - the gain is way, way too high and the reflected impedance of the EAR on the MC setting is miles away from what the Dynavector needs to sound good (greater than 1K Ohm). I think you need to be using the MM input on the EAR or your cartridge will never sound right, regardless of the tubes used.

 

I changed it's position again, took it out of the rack, no change. What's new (today), when I touch the tone arm of the turntable the hum get's far wore. Why is it only the case with the EAR and not the Gold Note?

 

Tried it again, nothing sounds wrong/different to me. Do you use the same cartridge?

And: Playing the Gold Note again right now I like it at 470. My dealer said I should have at least 100 ohm. Why Do you say it must be 1K Ohm? Your experience or technical necessity?

 

Looked up the specs of the cartridge. It says =>

• Empfohlener Abschlusswiderstand: > 100 Ohm

=> So bigger than 100 Ohm. Not right?

 

The Gold Note stays on my list if it's not possible to free the EAR of the hum noise.

I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but still I'm asking back just in case... You are talking about the Dynavector 10x5 NEO, right? Not the 10x5?

 

No, I don't think he saw the NEO part, which is the new LOMC version ...

LowOutput version of the 10X5 MKII for operation on MC phono inputs. Excellent price/performance ratio.

| Cantilever: Aluminum
| Mounting: standard 1/2 inch
| Output voltage: 0.5mV
| Recommended load impedance: > 100 ohms
| Tracking force range: 1.8 - 2.2g
| Weight: 7.3g
| Diamond needle: Shibata III/Line Contact cut
| Compliance (μm/mN): 12

 

Post deleted! I didn't see the neo designation. Didn't even know such as beast existed! Carry on.