Ellington '56 Newport Concert

Hi Everybody,

I asked this question in another thread. Just wanted to know what you think about this CD. In particular, Legacy found 2 mono tapes (one was theirs, the other was Voice of America I think, stored at the Library of Congress) and created a "stereo" mix, if you will, by having one tape play in the left channel, and the other in the right.

What's your impression of this CD? I really love the concert and keep coming back to this set. But I get the feeling it might have been better folded into mono (or would we then have phase issues to deal with?).

Mike

 

If you enjoyed that one search out All Star Road Band, recorded June 1957 in Carroltown, PA. Gonsalves' solo on Diminuendo and Crescendo in Blue at Newport is regarded as the definitive take of that composition, but I've always felt the version on All Star Road Band is more exciting. My copy is on the Doctor Jazz label, issued by King Record Co. of Japan, K35Y 6006 in 1984.

 

Thanks ATR, this sounds like it's worth finding! There's a jazz store around here that has a lot of used Japanese issues like this, so maybe I'll get lucky.....

 

It is one of my favorite CDs, and I am glad they were able to do this kind of restoration to stereo, very impressive work. The two channels should not be folded down to mono, why ? You can listen to each channel separately if you want to hear any of the two original mono mixes.

Now, if only someone found some film of that concert... The CD transports the atmosphere of the concert so well, but wouldn´t it be wonderful to watch it, too ?

 

Re: Re: Ellington '56 Newport Concert

You're absolutely right about listening to each channel separately. I just think some parts of the disc sound really strange, obviously because the people setting up mikes didn't consider what Legacy would do some 40+ years down the road. The stereo soundstage, or illusion, just sounds very strange to me on some parts of the disc. But it's a fun disc. Boy, I don't think I ever got so much musical enjoyment for so little money. Except for that amazing 2 disc Ella set I remarked on earlier (damn, every track smokes. Thanks Steve!).

Oh yeah - film (or access to the wayback machine) would be a most awesome thing! I love the part where George Wein hollers out "THAT'S IT!" like everyone will just pack it in and go home. I didn't know the Duke was so well versed in crowd control!

Mike

 

Funny...I just picked this one up a week ago. I have yet to do any sort of critical listening, but what I have heard sounds pretty good. I haven't heard any problems with the sync job - I'd really like to know what hardware/software Mark Wilder and company used, as trying to get things in perfect sync is *really* hard to do, even on a workstation (I've tried it).

One caveat - most of the dialog and a few sections of the music are in mono, I believe taken from the VOA tape. Not sure why some of the music slips into mono here and there...

 

When it falls back into mono (during the announcements and at one place during the music) it means that the second tape did not record that passage, or it was cut out later. Apparently all announcements are missing from one source, and at one point one of the mono recorders ran out of tape, I think it´s during "Diminuendo" which is rather long. They cued another tape, and continued recording -> stereo.

 

I think they did an amazing job on that reissue. The sound quality is greatly improved over the previous CD versions, and probably LPs. And there's a lot more music on the newer 2CD set.

I just wish Sony would egt off their behinds and give us more Ellington gems from their valuts - they've been sitting on that stuff for too long.

 

Hmm...that doesn't sound right, because as the notes indicate, Columbia had *four* tape machines going - 2 for overlap and 2 for backup. They should have gotten every last drop. And it's the Columbia recordings that cut out when things go to mono.

FWIW, the VOA had 2 machines going, for overlap...

 

Yep! This has been one of the favorites in my small but eclectic jazz collection for some time. BTW, anyone seeking this one out should take extra care to get the two-CD Columbia/Legacy reissue (i.e., look very closely before you leap); it literally has the same photograph and phrasing on the booklet cover as the old standard issue studio/live CD which could easily be mistaken. The 2 CD version which contains both the real concert in it's entirity from separate mic'd sources along with the previously released as "live" studio reconstruction for comparison should have a yellow Columbia/Legacy label on the jewel case and a clear plastic end-strip over "DUKE - 100 YEARS."

I point this out because I very nearly picked up the earlier CD release by mistake.

Robert Cat Conrad

 

I think I read that somewhere, but since I don´t remember the source I might as well have dreamt it. It makes sense, as the mono fallback occurs during the longest title. Maybe not all tapes survived. Maybe someone made a mistake during the recording and failed to start the next tape before the previous one ran out.

Anyway, the people who have done this release have earned my deepest appreciation. This can easily be counted among the 10 best jazz albums of all time and I had such a good time listening to it in stereo.

Another outstanding album was made with similar technique, by the way. The re-release of "Louis Armstrong plays W.C. Handy" was restored by syncing up a copy tape with a mint LP from the first pressing. Everybody who remotely likes Jazz and Blues must have this album.

 

Re: Re: Re: Ellington '56 Newport Concert

Yeah the crowd was completely boiling over at that point... Amazing...

 

First off, I didn't realize jazz writer/producer Chris Albertson was a member here. (I'm certain I caught his posts before, but I probably did not know his name at the time.) He actually passed away last year, though he apparently hasn't posted since 2015. His obituary:

Chris Albertson, Biographer of Bessie Smith, Is Dead at 87

I bring this up because in another closed thread, he posted this about Phil Schaap's reissue of Ellington at Newport:

Fortunately it seems that original producer George Avakian was given a chance in the press to have his say:

Denver Entertainment: The Denver Post

Avakian is upset that record labels are reissuing archive material meant for the scrap heap, including rehearsals and goofs. "It would absolutely murder Duke Ellington if he were alive today. You do not go into people's garbage pails.''

He said everything done on the Newport LP was at the Duke's request. Both men felt the album's potential, despite the Gonsalves snafu. "I knew we had the greatest, most exciting recording of the Ellington band I'd ever heard and we had to use it.''

Positioned by the Newport stage, Avakian was dismayed when engineers signaled they couldn't hear Gonsalves. "I cannot tell you what a panic struck us,'' he recalled.

He and engineer George Knuerr spent two days separating Gonsalves' solo from the rest of the live recording, boosting it electronically and splicing together a performance with added echo and applause.

"The finished product was merely the greatest Ellington release of all time, the biggest-selling record he ever had. It was corrected as best we could under the very primitive equipment of the time, but it still sounds as much as possible like what the audience heard.''

Duke Ellington: Ellington at Newport 1956 (Complete) - JazzTimes

The true story of this 43-year-long deceit can now be pieced together, however contradictorily, by comparing reissue producer/annotator Phil Schaap’s explanation with the personal account told this writer by George Avakian, who was present at both the concert and the studio in his capacity as Columbia’s jazz A&R man and producer of the original LP. To Avakian’s clear recall, it was not Columbia that decided to re-record these selections because of faulty recording balance. Rather, it was Duke himself who wanted the band to have another chance at presenting itself in the best possible light. Certainly, anyone hearing Johnny Hodges’ twice-flawed attempts at executing his famous ascending scoops on “I Got It Bad” would understand why both the altoist and Duke would have wanted the live version corrected for release.

Personally, I like the two-CD reissue as well as the original mono album...but the 1999 reissue needs reverse EQ because that harsh, blistering top end is painful to listen to. It's consistently the worst thing about the sound quality of Schaap's reissues.