Empire Strikes Back is visually beautiful

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by matthew5, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag Your Ad Here

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    Pacifica, CA
    If the first Star Wars movie DLeet saw in the theatre, as he says, was the first in the prequel series, I don't think anyone who saw the original in 1977 (as I did) can even begin to put himself in those shoes. The way younger people see these movies and judge their quality may be beyond my ability to understand, but I can't reasonably call it wrong.
     
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  2. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I saw only Clones and Sith in the movies. Phantom Menace I watched on TV. They were showing all existing episodes each week. I distinctly remember the feeling being amazed by Phantom Menace and being severely let down by 4 and 5 that were not impressive at all at the time...
     
  3. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    Okay... I have take a look. Yeah, the guy does a funny job, but I simply cannot relate. Qui Gonn is my most favorite jedi to date out of the entire universe. He is the most humane. He saved a slave noticing his potential and convinced the council to train the boy despite the late age. He could have just said - ah, too old, oh well, nevermind.

    Confusing story? This applies to the original trilogy too. Empire, rebels? Why is Empire evil exactly? what have they done to wrong so many people? Star of Death? Well, that's just like Roosevelt and his flee, ahem, big stick he was carrying around the world. So, the US are evil too? :)

    Why is Luke so mildly disappointed about the deaths of his uncle and aunt, when he sees their burnt bodies?

    [​IMG] http://i68.fastpic.ru/big/2015/0903/63/57bdf6c184b389ffeaaf48d4cf02fc63.png
    As dramatic as it gets. People whith whom he lived ALL of his life to this point, who raised him, who were basically parents to him... not even a tear. Talk about bad acting. He's like.. oh, okay.

    Form of ships? well, in the world where there is sound in what is supposedly vacuum - kinda pointless to discuss form of ships. All have crude forms with stuff sticking out. Even the imperial cruiser, to which the "dougnut" is compared. It looks like a warship from World War II floating in space - not effective for space combat at all, imo.

    Anyways, the lists of what is wrong with any film could go on to no end. This is what happens when the entire universe and the entire frachise are built on a single film released back in 1977. That's not a world build on a strong foundation, but a upside pyramid which resides on the foundation of one brick. Tap it slightly, and the whole thing falls apart.

    That's my view, however. :)
     
  4. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Sorry, but I don't see any of your 'objections' to have much substance. But, if that's how you see it, my objections to your objections don't much matter! :)
     
  5. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    My point, if to state it briefly, people should take it easy and perceive Star Wars with an easier attitude. It's an entertainment product first and foremost and not a play of Shakespeare tier. With that in mind, to bash prequels far more than the original trilogy seems unfair to me. )))
     
  6. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag Your Ad Here

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    I guess that's one way to look at it, but back in 1977 Star Wars blew my pre-teen mind, and I hotly anticipated the next two. The prequels are among the most disappointing films I've ever seen.
     
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  7. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    probably that's the phenomenon of getting older. Had you seen prequels at my very young age or at your young age - you might have viewed them differently. Many people have memories etched since their youth - episodes 4-6 sublime. Prequels were met with high expectations but with adult mind that has a harder time ignoring the silliness.
     
  8. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag Your Ad Here

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    Yeah, that's true, that's the phenomenon I was describing earlier. But the first movie was a huge success at the time. It basically hijacked American popular culture for a while, and helped usher in the era of the 'blockbuster" movie. Lucas and Spielberg were absolute giants in Hollywood for a while, although Spielberg's run at the top lasted a bit longer.
     
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  9. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Ahem...

    [​IMG]

    (A friend gave me this book as a birthday present, knowing I'm a big fan of both Shakespeare and Star Wars. It's actually pretty funny.)
     
  10. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

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    Chernigov, Ukraine
    :laugh:
     
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  11. Rocker

    Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Have you read The Empire Striketh Back or The Jedi Doth Return yet?
     
  12. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    No, not yet. I've only read parts of this one so far. It's not really the kind of book I read in one go, just a couple of pages now and then. After all, I know what happens. ;)
     
  13. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery Picture Member

    "Fans" always want to make long things shorter and short things longer.
     
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  14. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    I have it as well. I haven't read it yet.
     
  15. Wounded Land

    Wounded Land Forum Resident

    Not to totally derail the thread, but I've been really getting into the Clone Wars animated TV show. It's a kids show, but it's really well done, I think. I'm enjoying it way more than the prequels.

    I actually also did something yesterday that I've never done in my entire life (I'm pushing 40): gone into a comic store and bought some comics, specifically the new Marvel Star Wars books. I guess I'm getting psyched up for the new movie.

    And yes, Empire has an amazing visual feel to it.
     
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  16. jojopuppyfish

    jojopuppyfish Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    I saw Empire and Jedi in the theaters as a kid.
    At the time, I was disappointed in Empire...mainly due to the ending.
    Now when you watch all 3, I think Empire might be the best.
     
  17. Quadboy

    Quadboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leeds,England
    exactly the same situation for me.
     
  18. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    Well, he did react when he realized they were alone back at the house and the stormtroopers were looking for Luke. I suspect Hamill did what the director told him to do.

    Oh, shut up.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
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  19. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I am not blaming the actor here, of course. I just don't uderstand why the reaction had to be so understated. Death of Obi-Wan was more of a blow on him than of his closest family for 17 years! How does that make sense?

    shut up about sound, eh? Well.. back to watching Space Odyssey and reading Stanislaw Lem.
     
  20. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    It makes sense when you take into account the full range of human responses to sad or tragic events. Not everyone bawls their eyes out; not everyone contorts their face in visible grief; not everyone becomes an emotional wreck; not everyone processes their grief in the split second it happens; some bottle up their emotions; some...seriously, there are so many possible responses to loss that you harping on this particular and insignificant element is hard to fathom.
     
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  21. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Perhaps he was closer to Ben than he was to his Aunt and Uncle despite the length of time he lived with them. Uncle Owen was holding him back, preventing him from pursuing his dreams. Ben was encouraging him to broaden his horizons. He encouraged him to join the fight against the Empire. He was instructing him in the ways of the Force. He told Luke about his father, well, partially anyway. Uncle Owen dismissed Luke's queries about his father, telling him to "forget it" when Luke raised the topic. Ben was more of a father figure to Luke in the short time that the two knew one another than Uncle Owen ever was.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
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  22. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

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    I think it would've ground the film to a halt if Luke suddenly dropped to his knees and sobbed. There's a particular tone that the movie went for, and I think that would've been extremely melodramatic for what's basically a light-hearted action-adventure romp. Lucas has said many times that all Star Wars is is a fairy tale for kids, plus a lot of influence from movie serials and bits & pieces from Sergio Leone, Kurosawa, and so on.

    I think to suddenly swing from a snappy one-liner adventure to a dramatic, emotional moment in a movie like this, particularly this soon, would've been the wrong thing to do. Even Leia doesn't react that much when Governor Tarkin destroys her entire planet -- her family, her friends, her adopted parents, her home, and (as one 1977 critic said) "her record collection." She looks misty eyed, but it's for maybe 2 seconds in a reaction shot.

    Lucas himself is not a real emotional guy -- from what I saw -- and you don't see people breaking down, screaming, or going nuts very much throughout all the films he's done. It's not necessarily a criticism; it's just a specific choice he made.

    As to sound in space: c'mon. The movie won the Oscar for Best Sound (and a special award to Ben Burtt). Case closed. As many clients have reminded me: "kid, we ain't makin' documentaries here. This is entertainment." You can also make the argument that no space ship could make maneuvers like a WWII fighter plane, but that's what they were modeled after, so that's what they did. You can argue that they never would've designed a big, vulnerable hole inside the Death Star (twice) that an enemy ship could fly into and destroy it. When Han Solo and the others get out and walk around on the asteroid in Empire, there's no air there, either -- and no air pressure and very little gravity -- but they get out and walk around with small oxygen tanks and have no ill effects. There's tons of this stuff in these movies. No one cares. It's enough that you can suspend your disbelief for 2 hours and then say, "wow, what a roller coaster!" at the end.

    I didn't see three dozen angry letters to Science Digest in protest. At some point, ya just gotta let it go, especially for a movie that made billions of dollars, made audiences happy, and had such a profound effect on pop culture and the film business (good and bad).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  23. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    ESB has the best Falcon cockpit of them all. I hope they use that design in the new movies. I heard a rumour that Abrams liked that one best too.
     
  24. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    It's also dramatically more effective to exercise restraint. Kieslowski's Blue is a profoundly emotional film, both tragic and (at points) uplifting in a very genuine way, but Juliette Binoche doesn't break down sobbing or shoot rainbows out of her butt at any point in the story. And as Marc so correctly points out, it's about where to place those moments of emotional expression in your story for full dramatic impact. Plus, John Williams' music cue in the scene where Luke finds his aunt and uncle dead tells another part of the emotional story in a much more elegant way than an emotional breakdown onscreen would.

    The Star Wars films are also science fantasy, not science (read: speculative) fiction. They're not supposed to reflect reality or projected future reality in any way.

    Back on topic, look how simple and elegant this composition is:

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    And that's not even the composition used in the film:

    [​IMG]
     
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