Ethernet Cables in for evaluation

This thread is a bait for audiofools. Any OEM cheap CAT6 Ethernet cable is good enough for a Gigabit home internet connection. I have CAT5E cables on my Gigabit internet with no problems.

Only if you have a data center/streaming service at home and 10 Gigabit internet, you may consider better Ethernet cables.

 

Well - but it has been pretty civil - let's not ruin that with comments like this. Some people has posted opinions and beliefs, other have posted facts. That is the purpose of these forums. There is a bait comment in there and I will take a little bit - denial is a simple no - there are no cable deniers here, just people that provide facts based on accepted science.

Notice I say accepted - science should and will be challenged - using the scientific method. Disagree ? Lobby the cable manufacturers to submit their products to a peer reviewed scientifically designed experiment... easy!

Dang - I think I took the bait completely - oh well, took the time to reply, might as well post it. Please note the civility of the reply - no need for vulgarity, pls.

v

 

I signed up to this forum after reading this thread.
@Puma Cat - I 100% agree with your observation that ethernet cables make a difference, because I had the exact same experience with BlueJEans cables 6A. They are the worst cables for listening to music.
For those who have piped up here, basic science demands an observation first and then seek to an answer. If your system cant be reproduced in someone else home all objective analysis is meaningless. You have been remarkably civil and your insights have been very helpful.
I am not going to go down the path of FMC's and LPS's cuz i feel at some stage i need to draw the line. That to me (after I have done the speaker cables, IC's and power cords) is the ethernet cable because of the terrible sonic experience of the BlueJeans cables is getting an ethernet cable.

 

Any more bad jokes from the cable denier's brigade?

 

ITT @Ortorega begs for attention.

 

Hehe. This post ended the debate.

 

So which cable company do you work for?

 

I'm guessing not BlueJeans

 

Terrible sonics.

 

The exception in this debate is that the science and technology of TCP/IP and AoIP is proven so the so-called “objective” experiences are in reality “subjective”. Those claiming to hear a difference can’t point to any valid reasoning as to WHY.

In another similar thread I laid out a pretty simple method for testing the difference in cables using the redundant “fail- over” method baked into some pro level audio interfaces made by Focusrite.

 

So I just read a description from a little marketing blurb from Wireworld on why ethernet cables affect sound:

Normal file transfers use TCP protocol, which is quite reliable because it resends any missing data until all errors are corrected. But TCP is not used for streaming because resending would interrupt the signal. That's why media streaming uses UDP protocol, which sends data only once. UDP is a less reliable protocol because it can only reduce errors enough to prevent "noises" that would otherwise be caused by data losses. UDP streaming signals have only one chance to get through, and as a result Ethernet cabling is very critical.

I don't know squat about this subject other than reading various opinions here and there...this is not my area of expertise whatsoever. But I was just curious if someone can explain in layman's terms why this statement may be correct or just a bunch of bull.

 

Well, they're incorrect in saying that streaming uses UDP. UDP is only used in applications such as live video streaming where you can't have a buffer. Everything else just uses TCP/IP with buffering.

 

Thanks. That was just the input I was looking for.

 

My sqeezebox devices use UDP, others use TCP/IP. Which protocol is used depends on the devices and services you use.

 

I would also argue that missed UDP data won't result in subtle sound quality differences. They'll be obvious dropouts.

 

The DIAL protocol used by Google Chromecast and compatible devices only uses UDP for discovery of devices. All the audio/video data transfer is TCP and would use CRC data protection. I suspect a lot of other streamers also use TCP. Certainly any streamers that directly connect to external cloud or streaming music service would use TCP.

 

As with the Chromecast example above, the squeezebox uses UDP for network discovery and TCP for transmission.

 

Based on the reality that streaming devices use TCP, this marketing blurb is either really out-of-date or intentionally misleading. In fact, when interpreted correctly, the marketing blurb actually indicates ethernet cables are not that important because TCP is "quite reliable." This is what frustrates people with engineering background and causes a lot of us to dismiss the claims of people that hear the difference in digital cables. I don't blame people that don't have the background for getting sucked into this kind of underhanded marketing.

Even with TCP, a broken cable is still going to cause issues. If you are using streaming hardware/software that just loses data, those problems are not going to be EQ problems. They are going to be really ugly distortion that anyone can hear. If the streaming hardware/software can degrade bitrate in response to limited bandwidth, you might start hearing things that sound like lower bitrate MP3. Youtube does this. Generally the bottleneck is the internet connection and not the local wired network. You can get a not-broken cable without buying weird high-priced audiophile stuff. Ironically, some of the audiophile ethernet cables are less spec compliant.

 

I would have been really curious to read your conclusions - positive or negative.

But having just waded through 12 pages (working backwards) of "oh, yes they do" and "oh, no they don't" I have truly lost the will to live!

Goodbye cruel world!

 

Have not lost the will to live, but I understand your point.....I feel ya.

 

I'll summarize them for ya here later today, and then you can sit back and watch the SHF "objectivists" can pile on yet again...

 

I would think Galileo would be the "objectivist" here. Am I missing something?

 

Yes, you are missing something.

 

Heard some expensive Chord cables at a hifi store event a couple of days ago. I was surprised that there were clear improvements when moving up the range of speaker cables and interconnects with a Naim system streaming from Total (I forget the make of speakers, but one guy said they weren't the best sounding in his view).

At the end of the dem, the company rep changed to their top of the range ethernet cable, or as they call it, "streaming cable". I felt heard an improvement. It was different from what I'd heard with the changes of interconnects and speaker cables - a slightly more relaxed less taxing sound rather than the greater clarity I'd heard with previous changes.

It may be that, after hearing a progression of improvements, I was conditioned to hear a change with the streaming cable too. The rep told me afterwards that it appears it's only the final link between switch and streamer that is worth replacing with their streaming cable.

I am not about to rush out and buy an expensive streaming cable, but I may experiment with putting a switch near the streamer using a shorter cable. If the rep's reasoning is correct that might lead to an improvement - it won't cost anything to try.

 

In that case, the cruel world can wait! Thank you.