First Stereo Recording at Radio Recorders Studios, etc.?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jan 23, 2010.

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  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Anybody know when Radio Recorders on Santa Monica Blvd. first recorded in stereo? I'm guessing it was 1957; probably for Verve Records.
     
    MLutthans, Jan 23, 2010
    #1
  2. mavisgold

    mavisgold Senior Member

    Location:
    bellingham wa
    http://www.scottymoore.net/studio_radiorecorders.html
    Jim Malloy has been quoted as saying, “What I remember most about those days were the technical innovations. We made the first stereo album in the United States, 'Louis Armstrong Plays King Oliver', in 1957. In '58 we had the first 2 track and 3 track Ampex tape machines. Warren Dave and I also made the first stereo 8 track cassettes by hand at Radio Recorders.” However, Warren who worked there in the '50s and '60s said “we didn't create the 'first 8 track stereo cassette recording' - Jim always had a creative imagination.”
     
    mavisgold, Jan 23, 2010
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  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    The above quote has so many inaccuracies it's laughable.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jan 23, 2010
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  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Yep; I had found that quote, too, which is why I asked the question, because that's like saying I first saw the Space Needle at the World's Fair in Spokane in 1971.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Jan 23, 2010
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  5. Shawn

    Shawn Senior Member

    Location:
    West Hollywood, CA and Inverness, IL
    Hope this isn't a thread crap (if so please delete) but over the last couple of months they've gutted Radio Recorders and now you can rent office space there. I meant to take some pics but when I was there with my camera I couldn't find any parking nearby.
     
    Shawn, Jan 23, 2010
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    That's a shame. Some great (and I don't use that lightly) recordings came from that studio. I'll put CLAP HANDS, HERE COMES CHARLIE against just about anything.
     
    MLutthans, Jan 23, 2010
    #6
  7. mavisgold

    mavisgold Senior Member

    Location:
    bellingham wa
    But, I read it on the Internet - it's gotta be true!!!!:hide:
     
    mavisgold, Jan 23, 2010
    #7
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Steve, can you correct the quote and say when the first stereo session was done in Hollywood? (By that, I mean one done only for music, as opposed to Fantasia or This Is Cinerama.) Who did get the first 2-track and 3-track Ampex machines? And who got the first 8-track Ampex multitrack?

    I honestly don't know the answer, but I know the various legends about Les Paul. But he didn't have a lot of hits by the time these machines were coming out. I always thought it was sad that, here's the guy who help innovate multitrack recording, but his hit-making career was practically over by 1957-58...
     
    Vidiot, Jan 24, 2010
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  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I'm not Steve (obviously), but Stan Kenton in Hi-Fi has to be right in there. IIRC, it was recorded at Goldwyn, but not for any film use; just for records. Recorded in February, 1956, IIRC.
     
    MLutthans, Jan 24, 2010
    #9
  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    KENTON IN HI-FI's recording location and date is right. Recorded by John Palladino. His focus was on the mono though...
     
    MMM, Jan 24, 2010
    #10
  11. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    What was the first U.S. stereo non-film recording then? ALSO SPRACH ZARATHRUSTA on RCA from '54, possibly?
     
    MMM, Jan 24, 2010
    #11
  12. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Les Paul.

    http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/sel-sync/snyder_sel-sync.pdf

    Atlantic got the third one. I've heard who got the second one, but I can never remember the name.

    I've heard that Ampex shopped the idea to a number of people/companies, but that Paul was the only one to bite.
     
    lukpac, Jan 24, 2010
    #12
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    This really gets into semantics. One of the first stereo recordings done at a professional/commercial session was by Bert Whyte. C. Robert Fine was recording the session in mono for commercial release by Mercury, and Bert Whyte recorded the session in stereo. This was Dec. 6, 1952, in Orchestra Hall in Chicago, Rafael Kubelik conducting. The stereo results have finally been released on CD, and are not bad, actually. Apparently, only one movement of Ma Vlast by Smetana survives in its stereo form.

    RCA Red Seal's first stereo session -- again, basically on an experimental basis -- was with Stokowski in Boston on October 6, 1953. No samples survive. Their second session was December 2, 1953, with Monteux in NYC, and part of that session survives, and sections have been released by RCA on CD. The third was Feb. 21, 1954, with Munch in Boston, and parts of the stereo recording survive and have been released. Their fourth session is the one where they hit the jackpot, as it were: Also Sprach Zarathustra, with Reiner in Chicago, a recording which has been in print virtually since the dawn of the stereo era, recorded with two mics in March of 1954.

    I think the winner, though, in terms of being the earliest stereo recording made by and released on an actual major label goes to Atlantic Records one and only recording made by stereo pioneer Emory Cook. Atlantic recorded Wilbur De Paris's jazz group in both mono and stereo in *1952*, and released the album ON ATLANTIC using Cook's wacky dual-tonearm system, as "binaural" Atlantic catalog number AL 1208 BIN.
     

    Attached Files:

    MLutthans, Jan 24, 2010
    #13
  14. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Now that you mention it, while I don't have details, I think Tom Dowd was doing limited stereo recording as early as '52.
     
    lukpac, Jan 24, 2010
    #14
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Yes, now that YOU mention it, I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was Tom Dowd's connection with Atlantic that got Emory Cook involved. The fact that it went over like a lead balloon apparently got Emory Cook quickly uninvolved.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Jan 24, 2010
    #15
  16. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Location:
    San Luis Obispo California
    Wish I knew, Matt. It amazes me how poorly a lot of things in the 1950s are documented.

    Also correcting the Jim Malloy quote, Louis Armstrong Plays King Oliver was recorded 9-10 1959, though at least it was recorded at Radio Recorders.

    That is a shame. It amazes me how poorly a lot of things of the 1950s are preserved...
     
    apileocole, Jan 24, 2010
    #16
  17. Chip Stylus

    Chip Stylus I buy music!

    Location:
    East Atlanta Village, Atlanta GA
    There's a 2-cd set "The Age of Living Stereo: A Tribute to John Pfeiffer"
    featuring interviews and (from 1953) stereo recording snippets.

    So if RCA was the answer, then it's '53.

    track one, disc one:
    Coppelia: Prld; Mazurka - Boston SO/Pierre Monteux
     

    Attached Files:

    Chip Stylus, Jan 24, 2010
    #17
  18. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The Bell Sound 'binaural' (stereo) recordings of Leopold Stokowski in New York, around 1932.

    Don't believe there's anything earlier...
     
    Greg1954, Jan 24, 2010
    #18
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    ....but I think we've been assuming tape-based, high-fidelity stereo. You are correct, though, that the Bell material was pretty much the beginning.

    I found some details on the Atlantic LP posted a few threads back. It was recorded September 11, 1952, at Engineer's Hall in NYC. 11 selections were recorded in stereo. Five were released (on the LP pictured above). The other 6 tracks were all eventually released on other Wilbur deParis LPs, but in mono only. Recorded on a Magnecord stereo tape machine.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Jan 24, 2010
    #19
  20. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Location:
    Lexington, Massachusetts
    I have a 1956 book about hifi with a chapter on the new thing, binaural. There's even an image of a wacky double-arm turntable. Must have been a tracking nightmare!

    I have a David Carroll album on Mercury that was recorded with beautiful full stereo sound. The cover indicates that it was recorded in 1956, but it must not have been released in stereo until a few years later.
     
    action pact, Jan 24, 2010
    #20
  21. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stroud,Gloucestershire, England
    Alan Dower Blumlien was doing stereo for EMI in the 30's
    not at Radio Recorders but beautiful downtown Hayes in Middlesex!!!
    His genius also developed stereo MS, disc cutters and most importantly microwave radar (H2S) which defeated the uboat and electronic 405 line tv.
    He died in an experimental radar crash in'43
    Abbey rd first recorded stereo in '55 with Sir Malcolm Sargant released in '58.
     
    ROLO46, Jan 24, 2010
    #21
  22. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    lukpac, Jan 24, 2010
    #22
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  23. den0iZer

    den0iZer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bratislava, Slovakia
    den0iZer, Jan 24, 2010
    #23
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Matt,

    I have August 1, 1956 for the first "official" Radio Recorders binaural recording. Apparently the machine was brought in from the outside for a few days to do some orchestral session. The machine was not a RR "fixed asset". I was told that their spy at Capitol warned RR to keep up with the Joneses and get on the ball with stereo. They really didn't, being very entrenched in mono. Capitol had already two in-house "fixed asset" Ampex 300-3 octal tubed three channel machines by August, '56.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Jan 24, 2010
    #24
  25. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stroud,Gloucestershire, England
    fascinating
    the Nazi's were interested in tape not for its cultural implications but in its abilty to capture an event
    thus Hitlers speeches could be pre recorded and broadcast from anywhere without clicks and ticks
    was it live or AEG?
    This confused (in theory) places like BBC Caversham who were tracking Herr Hitler around Greater Germany.
    Also signals branches siezed tape as an encoder,
    coded messages could be recorded in real time and sent @ hi speed to a similar machine without the enemy being able to decode it (in theory)
    Bletchle:angel:y Park did otherwise of course.
    :angel:
     
    ROLO46, Jan 24, 2010
    #25
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