For Yes Fans - what happened?

That may have been true. (I wouldn't know, as I don't listen to KC.) However I have an issue with the implication that "heavier" equals "better". It depends on the nature of the music. If a drummer is auditioning for a band like Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin or AC/DC, then you need a heavy drummer. For a band like Yes, not necessarily.

 

They didn’t even have any rehearsals with Alan prior to the tour! That says a lot. Many guys wouldn’t have cut the mustard.

 

I haven't seen the Howe Yes without Chris ,so I don't know about tempo's, But all Steve's parts sound like crap though Rabin's rock tone ,Yes had Two great Guitarists Rabin isn't one of them, He's a good singer songwriter and talented at other things
but way wrong for Yes
​

 

Maybe the real rub with YES is that when they ceased to be a band, and more of a concept of a group was the real falling off point.

Really that ends with 1978's Tormato.

That doesn't mean there wasn't good music after that. There was a lot of good music after that, only we find various permutations of a band concept, side projects, and groups like ABWH that sounded more like YES than bands who held the title.

That said, to me it's difficult for it to be "YES" without Anderson, Squire and Howe together (with a revolving cast of drummers and keyboardists), regardless of how good the other products are. It's like, it's not Pink Floyd without both Gilmour and Waters.

Therefore, it's a toss up to me as to which was the last true YES album, Keys... or Magnification. Twisting my arm, I would have to go with Keys...

 

Keys, wasn’t a great album. Just one classic Yes song: Mind Drive.

Magnification was a lot more assured, although I felt Howe was muted in favour of the orchestra.

But, Man, what a.concert...just incredible,

 

Was anyone else at the Union shows? LA forum is still my favorite concert ever.

 

I’m weighing his playing during his entire tenure with Yes, not just on Yessongs. He is a competent serviceable player, but in comparison to the musical contributions of Squire, or Howe or Anderson or Wakeman, he just doesn’t stand out. Or come across as being on their level in terms of musical contribution, Certainly not compared to Bill Bruford. If you listen to everybody that Bruford played with after he left Yes, he is just as strong as anybody in those subsequent bands. Drummers able to go toe to toe with Chris Squire, Steve Howe, Allan Holdsworth and Robert Fripp is SHORT list.

Of course all this stuff is a matter of opinion, it’s obvious that some people prefer a straight drummer like Alan White, there is no right or wrong. That’s said I think it’s pretty hard to argue that AW has a style anywhere near as individual or recognizable as BB, and the way that manifested itself in Yes is to me why nothing can touch those three albums (TYE, Fragile, CTTE).

 

For my money: the Close To The Edge material on Yessongs completely smokes the album versions. Close To The Edge is where Bruford's style/touch was beginning to be at odds with what Yes were doing. Alan's style was exactly what they needed. Preferences are preferences but to listen to side 4 of Tales and to make the claim that Alan wasn't standing "toe to toe" with his bandmates (especially Chis) is just ridiculous. And for another opinion: Yes elevated Bruford as much as he might have elevated them through Fragile. Nothing he's done since has quite matched the peerless and distinct drum parts on that album. But change is sometimes good, and it worked out for both Yes and Bruford.

 

Again it’s all a matter of personal opinion. AW did a great job on Drama because the material needed a drummer like him. On Yessongs he plays like Bruford with a head injury. To my ears.

 

Bill was done with Yes, so you're opining that a disinterested Bruford would have been a better option on Yessongs than a fresh, enthusiastic Alan White? Alan handled all of that music extremely well, and just kicked ass in a way Bill couldn't have. It isn't simple music, and Alan's playing isn't simplistic at all. As much as I love everything Bill ever did, Alan made more sense paired up with Chris Squire as a rhythm section than Bill did. Alan learned the '72 Yes tour set list in less than a week.

There's no bigger fan of BB in this thread than me, and there simply isn't any way to know what Bruford would have done with Relayer.

Listen to everything Alan did with Yes up through Drama, and tell me it's merely "competent." Competent compared to what? When I listen to that music, I hear drumming only the better prog drummers of the era could have done. I suppose fusion players like Erskine, Cobham and Lenny White could have found Yes music relatively easy to play, but we'll never know, will we?

At his best, Alan was as good as Phil Collins, Barriemore Barlow, or Carl Palmer, but Phil was also an excellent singer, and Palmer was a monumental showboat. Alan was neither.

Bill Bruford carved out a career that should be the envy of any instrumentalist. Is he a more complete artist than Alan White? Sure. That doesn't mean Alan wasn't one hell of a drummer.

Sadly, Bill's been retired for years, and Alan had major physical issues that have kept him from playing the way he used to.

 

Well, have you considered that the guy hadn't even had a single rehearsal with the band before embarking on that tour? Considering that the tour WAS the rehearsal, you might be slightly more impressed. I'd say perhaps only Alan could have pulled it off because a less natural "feel" player and a more proper "prog" drummer might have overthought the material and tried hard to be Bruford and could have been a straight trainwreck.

 

The arguments in this thread are reminding me why I mostly stopped visiting the Yesfans forum.

 

Everything they did from 1969 to 1977 was perfect in my book.

But I like some of the later stuff too.
"90125" and "The Ladder" are great albums.

 

What arguments? All I see is healthy discussion and simple opinions.

 

Yup. The Alan White who was the drummer in Oasis couldn't have gone toe-to-toe with Squire and Howe. Definitely a competent, serviceable player. Oh! Uh, sorry....I got my Alan Whites mixed up. The Alan White in Yes who actually did play with Howe and Squire was anything and everything but merely serviceable.

I guess a "straight" drummer is any drummer not named Bill Bruford.

Bill left Yes 47 years ago. He was better off in Crimson, and Yes was better off with Alan.

 

I agree with your takes. Alan White might not have been as great Bill Bruford (few are), but he was a really good replacement, and certainly excelled at times, especially on songs like Ritual and The Gates of Delirium.

 

Lots of passionate opinions about Bill Bruford vs. Alan White, but I love everything Yes did between their debut and Tales from Topographic Oceans, and I don’t get hung up on the different drummers.

 

I can only imagine how much better "What's The Story Morning Glory" would have been with Bill playing on it instead of Alan :/

 

Let's not get carried away. While Fish Out of Water contains no weak moments, the run of The Yes Album/Fragile/CTTE features a few of the high points in rock history.

 

Hard to tell. Is this satire?

 

Bill's sound and approach was always different, as close to unique as it gets. Very cerebral, always his own man, fantastic career, and maintained an absurdly high level of artistic integrity through the whole thing. If I have a favorite drummer who isn't Elvin Jones, Tony Williams or Roy Haynes, it's probably Bill. But he left Yes, which I guess some people still haven't forgiven him for.

 

Nice to see someone mention Tony Williams. Greatest drummer of all-time in my opinion.

 

No. I'm deadly serious. The whole album is sadly lacking in alternating left/right hand paradiddles. Could have been an ever bigger success with that element only Bill Bruford could have supplied.

 

The Alan White, who played drums for Oasis, is not the same Alan White who has been in Yes.

 

I'm in agreement for the most part. It's really too bad the business side of the band was such a mess, and Anderson leaving (or getting kicked out) just killed it for me.

I agree with Keys being the last real Yes album. But of course it imploded before they got to the next step...