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Four Seasons: no audiophile grade remasters? why?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Chemically altered, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    because they suck? rarely do they do a decent job...too much processing. my needle drops sound better...
     
  2. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Major thing to know. Those Philips 45 singles are almost always styrene. They're cut very hot, mistracked on most period phonos easily. Finding true near mint or new old stock copies is no small feat of magic, Val Shively is your best bet for them. On these, stick to .7 mil conicals or .3 x .7 mil elliptical styli for best odds of successful playback, And on Philips, you can also sometimes find the oldies label reissues which used original metalwork and have the original sound.
     
    agundy likes this.
  3. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    In your mind
    I disagree. The needle drops done on the Snapper 13th floor Elevators reissues sound great. As good as a tape transfer? No, but better than the old Inglot/Ken Perry 4 Seasons remasters. Again, this is a case of audiophile prejudice, I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  4. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    In your mind
    I agree with you using 45's, but I have mint copies of “Edizione D’oro" that I believe would be just fine for a vinyl transfer.
     
  5. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    Doesn't always have the coveted single mixes. For Stereo, it's the go to. You need both. Sometimes the single is the one to have. Sometimes Edizione D'oro is the best option, that title is a key Stereo source.
     
  6. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    In your mind
    Agree 100%, but sometimes you have to go with the best available option.
     
  7. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    no...apples and oranges.
     
  8. oxenholme

    oxenholme High Quality Posts™ a speciality

    I beg to differ.

    I've yet to hear a CD mastered by Bill Inglot that I don't like. I have rather a lot of them. He's one of the few whose ears I trust.
     
    Pelvis Ressley likes this.
  9. Pelvis Ressley

    Pelvis Ressley Down in the Jungle Room

    Location:
    Capac, Michigan
    25 years, is that all?

    Seriously, "that guy" is one of the best in the business.
     
    oxenholme likes this.
  10. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    Inglot had a ton of successes, but even he had one or two missteps. The one that immediately springs to mind is The Monkees LISTEN TO THE BAND box set from the 90's. How many here remember the "new mix" of Pleasant Valley Sunday? If you don't remember it, then you've never heard it. It's full on digital overload which can do some serious speaker damage in the right conditions. Seriously. It's a mind blower......as well as an ear-drum blower.

    Now then, where were we? Ah yes....The Seasons.....

    Someone help me here.....what are the 60's PHILIPS 45's that can be found on honest to goodness vinyl (read: *not* styrene)? Fill in my blanks, in no particular order.

    DAWN
    GIRL COME RUNNING (am I imagining this one?)
    WILL YOU LOVE ME TOMORROW?
    RONNIE (imagination again?)
    RAG DOLL
    I'VE GOT YOU UNDER MY SKIN (imagination x3?)

    ....and for those wishing to hunt for a clean copy of the ballsy mix of C'MON MARIANNE, I was just reminded of this upload link which I myself made a year or two back. This is the cleanest copy I have ever come across, and while it's not perfect, it's pretty listenable.

    Crank this sucker!

    Four Seasons - C'Mon Marianne (Clean 45 version) - Clyp
     
  11. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Forum Resident

    In the minority here, but I've always loved those VJ stereo mixes. Lush, clean, vocally 'alive' with lots of air -- many sound close to as good as The Beach Boys stereo mixes Chuck Britz did 1963 ~ 1964 IMO.

    Someone mentioned that none of the Four Seasons LPs warrant reissue in its entirety, but I'd argue this one does IMO. The Four Seasons haven't aged well for most people, but those with a lot of experience listening to '60s pop, especially early to mid '60s pop will appreciate all that went into the LP. Granted, the band was pretty retro even for 1964, but they put lots into the arrangements and production even in the album cuts like Church Bells May Ring (a cover of a 1956 chestnut by The Willows). There's lots to appreciate in the level of craft they put into their records. People forget that they were one of the huge acts of the '60s -- for a while right up there with The Beatles and other huge sellers.

    Ugh. Just give me the stereo mix if that's the case IMO.

    That's what I'd want to hear.

    And would that be so bad? I've heard very nice sounding needle drops. As long as it was advertised as such, I'd buy it. "The Mono Mixes -- From Original 45 RPM Hit Singles."
     
    Chemically altered likes this.
  12. Pelvis Ressley

    Pelvis Ressley Down in the Jungle Room

    Location:
    Capac, Michigan
    Nice transfer, Chip!

    Here's mine for comparison. Far from perfect, no clean-up.

     
    greelywinger likes this.
  13. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Indeed...I have nearly all of them...great work and I have no complaints other than when he went MONO crazy back in the Rhino days! BUT now I have both Stereo & Mono versions of my favorites...worked out I guess...
     
    oxenholme likes this.
  14. greelywinger

    greelywinger That T-Rex Guy

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    Would also love to see a Mono singles version 2CD compilation from the original master tapes, but I know I'm dreaming.

    Darryl
     
  15. jjhunsecker

    jjhunsecker Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York city
    I got a new CD player, and have been listening to a lot of my Rhino CDs, and pleased about how good Inglot's work still sounds. Just tonight I was enjoying the Faces complete albums CD set- just gorgeous
     
    Pelvis Ressley and oxenholme like this.
  16. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    In your mind
    I like everything posted here. Is this my twin from a different mother?
     
  17. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Forum Resident

    Maybe our mothers went to different high schools together.
     
    Chemically altered likes this.
  18. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    In the past I would agree that you were indeed dreaming, but after hearing the new MAMAS & PAPAS singles 2-cd set and how amazing it sounds, now I'm not so sure.

    For something like MARIANNE I'm sure we'd have to settle for a solid needle drop, but I have to wonder what kind of safety masters are spread across the globe.....
     
  19. Lunar Laugh

    Lunar Laugh Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Pretty harsh words. Bill's one of the greats.
     
  20. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Edogawa Rampo:

    Thanks for your post where you critique *my* post :))

    I'm in 100% agreement with everything youve mentioned. Its true, many people have forgotten just how "Big" the Seasons were...they WERE, as you say right up there with The Beatles for a couple of solid years.

    I also Love the Stereo mixes of their 60s albums. I have an all tube playback chain (Preamp and Amp) and they sound AMAZING thru it. Full, lush, warm and with lots of power.

    Also agree, every one of their LPs, VJ or Phillips should see a quality re-release. There are some real Gems buried on those albums, like "Betrayed" , "On Broadway Tonight" , "Danger" and "An Angel Cried".........these tracks could have been Hit singles by themselves!!!

    I'm in agreement, that a 60s hits collection mastered from MINT 45s through a tube chain is needed. The real "Magic " of the 4 Seasons is on those 45s and not on the mono albums. Those 45s leaped out of the speakers and grabbed you by the throat when you played them. I really think the fans would seriously welcome this...I know I would!!! And for some reason I'd bet The Partnership might let Sundazed do this.
     
  21. Ken Charmer

    Ken Charmer Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Torrevieja, Spain
    I'm just trying to update this thread re the Snapper Project to Re-Master and issue the whole FV/4S catalogue with the MONO and STEREO albums from the 60s[to 2010] with Bonus tracks of the UNIQUE 45 mixes and unreleased and rare sides plus 3 Live Shows from the 1970s. Bill Inglot has sent the tape transfers to the UK and I've been working with Reynolds Mastering and the Snapper Team to ensure the 2 track Master tapes are checked and listed. Circa 778 tracks have been identified and Bob Gaudio will approve the list. 229 are either unique 45 mixes/rare/previously unreleased or Live......some are salvaged from cassette and vinyl dubs will be used for a handful of missing Master tapes[eg The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine 45]. The aim is to set the catalogue in as good a quality as is possible for 21st century. Edizione D'Oro Masters have been found and will be included.....and the MONO version of Genuine Imitation Life Gazette
     
    MMM likes this.

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