Let me guess, the video tests it as if it was a line filter, but it's not and never was, which has been documented countless times in this thread, yet the zombie non-issue returns. Next up: We test a toothbrush and determine it is a terrible helicopter, I mean, there's not even a way to get inside. Stay tuned...
This is awfully confusing. I don’t have a $200k. A $50k or even a $10k one… maybe about $6k (don’t tell my wife), so I don’t know how much improvement I could expect from such a device but they’re popular, it seems. Mixed reviews when I dig into it. Here’s another such: Puron AC Power Conditioner by Greg Voth anyone know of some specific tests which show exactly what they do, or is this simply more placebo effect audio snake oil?
Apologies if this was mentioned before but Alpha Audio NET stated regarding the Furutech NCF Clear Line AC conditioner - "This one is pretty clear: we hear no difference" I bought the IsoTek IsoPlug and by EMI measurements, brings the noise down. Alpha Audio NET - Multitest plug in filters – ten plug in filters – measurements and blind test
That little device really lowers emi significantly; much more than the noise harvestors and quiet lines I use. Each of those units only lower emi about 25 points. Is that your normal reading on your lines? It seems rather high as my lines run about 3-400 on my household circuit and 60-80 on my dedicated lines.
I know Greg Voth and can vouch for his integrity. There’s another thread on the Puron that got a bit divisive, not unlike this one. I’ve not heard the Puron so can’t comment. I do have the Furutech device. In my previous residence’s main listening room, it made a distinct and positive difference. I’ve since moved to a new home. Where my main system is the Furutech makes a diffference but much less so. In the den where I have another system it made no difference. I can inly conclude that positive results have much to do with whether one has “problematic” power lines. My previous residence must have had some issues compared to the new one, since the audible difference from adding the Furutech there was far more distinct.
I was testing a cartridge yesterday and was looking at the noise floor of my phono preamp. I decided to unplug my Greenwave plug-in filter and, indeed, I could see the noise drop by -10 to -15 dB by plugging it into the same circuit. That said, that's not what the device mentioned in this thread is at all.
My greenwave (actually Stetzerelectric‘s version ) betters the IsoTek by a factor of 2-3. If I have line nose of 50, the Isotek will bring it to 40. The Stetzerelectric alone brings the same noise to 25. I didn’t mention above it because it’s not a real audio product. For $30 used on eBay, these can’t be beat
The only way you are going to know for sure is to actually try it in your system, using your ears. Do you hear a difference? Wonderful, keep it. You don't hear any difference at all? No problem. Return the device for a full refund. It doesn't get any easier than that.
You know, this is the exact reason I made the purchase—it appeared to do more than any other of the audio products even though it was marketed as a health oriented product. No regrets. I'm seeing a 10 to 12 dB drop int he noise floor.
I have the stetzerelectric on the non audio power strip and the Isotek on my audio power conditioning strip.
All this time and I'll bet you still haven't actually listened to the device in your system. Yet you can quickly dismiss such products as snake oil, ignoring the fact that many listeners (i.e., those that actually listened) heard a change. How can you dismiss those assessments?
I have never dismissed it. I've simply offered alternative explanations for the differences people think they're hearing, such as listening position, volume level, the specific music chosen (listening to the same selection repeatedly with no changes in the equipment might still reveal aspects of it you haven't noticed before), time between listening sessions, influence of other people in the room, state of mind, external factors (traffic/HVAC noise), etc. as well as simply paying for, knowing, and seeing that the device is installed and thus expecting that it must be doing something. That, and tests and measurements which have proven that Furutech's claims about it "filtering noise" and "optimizing" the AC waveform are pure bunk -- the AC waveform and noise level are identical with and without it installed.
With all due respect, and I don't ever want to discount scientific measurements, but hasn't history shown that human senses have long been able to detect sights, sounds, smells, etc., long before we as a species were able to accurately measure such criteria? Your claim is that today's objective measurements can accurately and completely measure all senses that a human can perceive. Are we truly at that level of absolute objectivity?
I suppose, based on claims, that one would measure vibration and resonance in a wire attached to the circuit with the device plugged in and without. There are papers out there documenting measurement techniques I can read that date back to the mid 70s. Still, not one person as far as I can tell has properly tested the device. If I were to speculate about why I'd think it would be because it is fairly complicated and time consuming and possibly expensive. What is easy is taking an EMI measurement. That's quick and easy. Maybe it's not the right measurement, but why worry with that when one could ponce about the internet telling everyone they were idiots? That's what we wanted to do anyway. The other way is to buy one and listen, but we all know well our perception can fool us because we are all biased. Hmmm...
I did that early on and even posted about my findings. I'm too lazy to go look up what I posted so I'll leave that task up to one of the several thread crappers here to seek it out.
Too bad the crappers don’t read. You’ve tested. Someone else cut the thing open. What’s curious is that one guy claimed to have found continuity and claimed there actually was something electronic inside. Maybe I misremember that, IDK.
Audio woo An audiophile is someone dedicated to producing the highest possible fidelity in the playback of music. While this is a reasonable goal, much of the industry that caters to them sells extremely high-priced equipment that claims to improve sound through highly dubious mechanisms and/or badly misunderstood real science. Most double-blind studies have shown that there is no difference in detectable sound quality for most of the equipment sold,[1] and some of it is actually inferior in quality to less expensive products. Many of the products use appeals to magical thinking and pseudoscience to explain their mechanisms. While some of them do indeed provide a small, subtle improvement in sound quality, the unscientific claims by the manufacturers as to why they might sound better lead to a subculture of people who are utterly deluded about how to get the best sound from an audio system.
I think what is exceedingly clear is not how or if this product works, but that those in the objectivist camp often start with a conclusion and only entertain information that supports their conclusion. They ignore whole fields of science that they do not understand or have not been exposed to, they purposefully misrepresent facts to make their points, they have little curiosity about how something might work (even if it doesn't actually work), and they typically have little background in psychological testing methodology. We can look at a term being tossed about—"magical thinking". What does this mean? Spoiler: Magical Thinking magical thinking, the belief that one’s ideas, thoughts, actions, words, or use of symbols can influence the course of events in the material world. Magical thinking presumes a causal link between one’s inner, personal experience and the external physical world. If someone is influenced by their own bias and believes in error that a worthless product is making things sound better, this is not magical thinking. Their belief is not that their ideas, thoughts, etc. are influencing the scenario. Instead, their belief is that a product is making a difference that they can hear. On the other hand, if a product is based in science and is influencing the audio presentation but that difference can't be measured easily, or on the other hand a measurement that does not apply to the product is given weight; AND a person, based their own claim that the product is a hoax, decides the product has no merit—then you have an example of actual magical thinking, right? At the core of this thread, you have a damping product that has no electrical component, but it plugs into an outlet because someone decided that was a good way to connect damping material to an AC line. What is preventing the discussion of the potential merits of the product, even if the effects are all a placebo? Here's a hint, it's not the people who bought the thing, plugged it in, and liked what they heard, generally, although there are some.
I would have to disagree with your statement that "most" of the audiophile equipment sold for high end users has no detectable sound difference. Many expensive products, such as SAT tone arms, for example ($28,000), are indeed expensive BUT are based on solid engineering principles. In the case of the SAT arm, measurable engineering principles were applied to dampen or eliminate vibration that makes its way to the pickup mechanism. No one ( except the designer) thought those minuscule vibrations would have any sonic effect for the listener, until they actually heard the product that was created. There are indeed many products that have measurable results AND detectable sound differences. While I have indeed heard a repeated detectable sound difference with the NCF, this particular product does indeed lack measurable parameters that currently show why it does what it does.
I am pretty fascinated with damping technology. It’s not all intuitive. I’d like to know more about this material.
You posted the statement that said "most of the equipment sold." That includes tonearms in my example. Ok, clarify please. Which categories of high end equipment should be included with your statement?
