Genesis - did they really sell out?

My favorite of the 3 even though Discipline is a tour de force.

 

In your opinion.

 

Yep.. and let's not forget that some "new wave" bands like Devo & Talking Heads have their roots from before punk was ever a thing.. springing from the world of performance art as much as misfit early/mid 70s art-rock.

The point was made quite in quite a compelling way by Simon Reynolds in his book "Rip it up and Start Again" that new wave was a continuation of Prog Rock/Art Rock under somewhat more austere rules.

 

Why isn't it?

Those are all genre categories the band kept until Duke - it's more like subjective reasoning. I enjoy the vast majority of what Genesis put out, but I'm also aware they put out some very beautiful songs early on that could of been from completely different artists that hardly followed the band's main ideals. Claiming a one off is "part of the LP" for one record but "selling out" for another when the intent was, at least in terms of what came from the horses mouth, the same, can't be anything except making an excuse to know what you like and like what you know.

As for Wind - ATTWT, it's Tony. Throw out Hackett's solo at the end of All In A Mouse's Night, and you realize as a songwriter, there was little movement from that record to the next one, and it doesn't help he was the primary songwriter on at least Trick - ATTWT, if not also Duke.

 

Just to clarify. This is my opinion.
That means that I do not have to prove anything. This is not scientific work in progress. My opinion is subjective.
So misteranderson, this is an opinion you either have to accept, ignore or disagree with.
And also if the need to call me a troll appears again I would like to have it adressed to me personally. One special contributor who knows who he is does not need to answer as I choose to ignore what ever that person have to say. Learn your manners.

Rob of Progressive music planet has all in all got it absolutely right.
I struggle though to accept the level of listenable quality that Rob finds in some of songs, but I over all agree.

They sold out.

 

The Police were a bunch or proggers. Nick Lowe, Elvis Costello, Ian Dury, all pre punk dudes. New Wave was a bit sorta old. Post Punk though, that was new and great.

 

You need to say why it is. You are the moving party.

I am not saying they sold out. I think they got spent. It's something else. I just have a completely different fandom from yours I guess. You are way overthinking genre aspects to this band, to my lights, no offense. What if you just let go of that?

My opinion is not based on the genre identities, or the algorithms implied by each motif within each song on an LP. For me, it's just when they got spent. It happens to so many rockers I love that I pretty much expect it. And it happened to them for me, when they lost hackett, and made ATTWT. I have listened to it enough to know how I feel about those melodies. The hit single was the icing on the cake because I found it not intriguing or catchy at all, even in the smallest measure. sorry. For me the shark got jumped then. The issue of prog vs pop vs rock vs folk is not even somethng I would think about. I only care about when they ran out of ideas that I care about.

 

What?

 

Your genrefying is incoherent?

 

As much as I've been enjoying this thread - it's been fascinating, if a little fractious - I've come to the decision that I don't care whether Genesis sold out or not.

I've enjoyed most of their music from their debut through to Calling All Stations. Their worst album - for me The Lamb - is still an enjoyable listen. Not only that, I like most of their extra curricular stuff too, from Anthony Phillips to Phil Collins.

A veritable surfeit of talent.

 

The pop songs indicate a fact.

 

T

They wrote to their capabilities as a trio working as a self contained unit. They simplified their process to deliver the result you hear. The fact the songs were hits largely depended on the marketplace.

If you want to tell me the Aerosmith sold out by bringing in outside writers to place their songs in the marketplace I would not argue with you.

 

Yes, they sold out too with songs like Crazy and I Don't Want To Miss A Thing. Unlike Genesis I no longer listen to Aerosmith.

 

Many bands wish they could sell out so well.

 

I agree but that does nothing to make me respect them.

 

Whether you respect them or not is immaterial

 

I'm kind of finished with this.

I've said everything I had to say in terms of the "sold out" defense, and I still think it's about as weak as "REM sold out" because no indie label.

 

That's the whole point! Sell out = lack of respect.

 

There's no actual definition. Uh, that's why we're having this "debate". Keep up lad.

 

I don't know anyone who feels that Genesis sold out that has any respect for them. Do you?

 

Selling out? What a joke. That's an irrelevant and redundant concept when we're talking about the music industry. All these bands we talk about daily here on the SHF have made music for money.

Genesis were one of the best and their choices worked for them. They have my respect.

 

The problem with Genesis selling out is producing subpar music later on like the Invisible Touch album in order to still get the buck$. I don't think anyone disputes that commercial music can be enjoyable until the quality level is totally ignored and down graded. That's what causes a lack of respect.

 

It's a matter of opinion, though, whether Invisible Touch is sub-par.

 

Yes, but it's a widely held opinion.

 

Possibly.

However, the album has plenty of fans too.