Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

Hi - and thanks for such a useful thread. We need one like this for every artist!

I have both version 1 and 2 of this album (and the definitive remaster), so I'll let you know how I think they compare when I get a few minutes. I already noticed that the target CD has significantly less bass than the definitive remaster.

 

Ok, had a closer listen tonight (using foobar with albumgain). The V/C pressing certainly has more treble/hiss on it. The Target CD actually has less treble and about the same level of hiss as the definitive remaster. The V/C also sounds a bit "fuller" and has a little more bass than the Target CD.

Looking at the replaygain values (and using my ears) I can tell that the relative volumes of each track are different on each pressing.

For me the V/C is the better pressing - I find the hiss reassuring and it doesn't have the reversed channels problem.

 

EAC for my Genesis S/T V/C Nimbus UK for adding to the lot:

100.0 % - 99.9 % - 92.6 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 95.0 %

 

I can't believe there were so many masterings for S/T. No wonder there was no definitive edition remaster. I wonder how different does LesPaul's S/T mastering sounds from the version 1 and 2 mastering. I recently acquired version 2 and was not impressed.

 

Which looks to be 0.2 dB louder than this version:

Version 2
[yes] - V/C, EMI Uden, NL : 97.7% - 97.6% - 90.5% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 92.8%
[Great] - V/C EMI Swindon, UK GEN CD1 : 97.7% - 97.6% - 90.5% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 92.8%

So, yours could simply be a normalized version of the above. Looks like we'll need folks to post samples of both for Raf to work his magic!

 

Given the trends we've been seeing, this is very likely the case.

I posted a general request for a sample of Version 2 in that other recent thread where LesPaul666 put up the sample of his V/C, but no one responded.

 

Oh sorry, I competely missed that! What would you like me to rip/send?

 

I have version 2, but I just don't know how to post a sample

 

LesPaul666's sample is the last minute of "Mama", so please post that from your V/C. Thanks!

 

I can use EAC to select just the last minute of that track to extract as a WAV?

 

I don't use EAC, so I don't know. I'm sure it can be done easily enough, though. Anyone?

 

I thought you wanted EAC, I can use another program instead. It's all good, I'm getting it done now

 

voila https://rcpt.yousendit.com/591899363/9209ad1a24225de7be94f8a91121f955

 

I must have missed that thread.

 

Thanks!

No surprises here: LesPaul666's sample is 0.2 dB louder than Great Deceiver's Version 2 sample, but they're otherwise identical.

 

Am I prescient, or what????

 

This is a great day. I actually now have the forum approved mastering of Genesis S/T (version 2). I still don't get version 1 though. The EAC levels were really low for that one, but the thread outline said it was version 2, but lowered 6db.

 

Just adding another data point from another thread.

The very rare purple swirl version of And Then There Were Three featured here: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3651851&postcount=411 has been reported (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3653982&postcount=418) as matching the Level-shifted Version 2:

92.6% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 99.5%

Same as for other releases Level-shifted copy of Version 2

 

It's very difficult to really say which ones are lowered and boosted. For all we know my copy could be the original first mastering, and the rest lowered in level from it.

 

Here's a sample from my Sonopress CD (version #4) of Live, which had different numbers than the other discs. Also, a sample from the Sanyo Japan version. My ears tell me that Dr. M was probably right and that these are simply level-adjusted:

Sonopress:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Q01IYkJ1ZDVuSlJFQlE9PQ


Sanyo:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Q01IYkJ1ZDVxRTJ4dnc9PQ

 

The two samples sync throughout, but they don't cancel out even when level-matched. I suspect there are very slight EQ differences between the two.

 

Interesting. I tried to A/B them and the difference seemed so minimal that I suspected they were likely the same.

 

What does "level shifted" mean???

 

Simply that two versions are identical EXCEPT for the fact that their levels (amplitudes) differ by some small amount. When accommodation is made for the level difference (that is, one is normalized to the other), they cancel out completely (barring some very low level of noise due to the process of normalizing the amplitudes). This exercise has shown that these level shifts can be as small as 0.2 dB. No one (including mastering engineer Barry Diament who was involved with some parts of the catalog) has any idea how/where/why these shifts were introduced (though Barry did postulate that someone might be trying to prevent levels reaching 100%, we have seen the shift on discs that never reach full signal level!). We have seen the same 0.2 dB figure show up for different pressings in several catalogs, not just Genesis.

So, if you have Version A and a level-shifted Version A, they will sound the same, since they are derived from the same digital master, but one will be slightly quieter.

 

Not to sound like an idiot, but what would happen if say an original mastering had peak levels at 95-100%, and noramlized to 50-60%? wouldn't it crush the dynamic range?