Eleventh Earl Of Mar The lyrics are totally 1970's Mike Rutherford, the man who wanted to do The Little Prince album. I bet Pete would refuse to sing it and write a more urban, contemporary thing instead. Musically, there's plenty of Steve's typical ideas and almost plenty of his electric stuff as well. A really nice song, very prog though not very complex for prog standards, which is in a way an early example of the prog-pop they would adopt in the 80s maybe (The Domino, for instance). Doesn't matter. My only complain about this song doesn't relate to this album actually. I think it's a cryme it wasn't included on Seconds Out. The bootlegs of that tour show that it kicked serious asses.
I was very late to the W&W party. I think it was one of the last Genesis albums I got when I was buying their back catalog. I think I had the self-titled "shapes" album before W&W! First impressions were that it started off really strong, had a saggy middle and an excellent finish. I had read that YOSW was a hit of sorts at the time of release and was anxious to hear it. I had to wonder why it had been a hit, much less chosen for a single. It was part of that "saggy middle". Over the years, I think I like it more, I can appreciate what the band tried to do rather than think of what they HAD to do to continue to prove themselves. I still think it's a weaker album than ATotT. Trick was a band album, but Wind is definitely one where Tony took the helm. To this day, the only vinyl copy I have is the US Atco pressing that I first purchased. I have the early Atco US CD and the remixed copy from the Genesis box but none of them really sound very good. Eleventh Earl Of Mar A very strong opener and recalls the days of Kings and Queens so prevalent on earlier Genesis albums. I think the lyrics are rather whimsical. I interpret them to be about a father telling his son bedtime stories about the Earl (in an attempt to give the son a bit of a history lesson), but the father is reluctant to do so, because the stories give the boy nightmares. But the boy insists "Daddy, you promised..." Even though it's a strong rocker, Earl sets the scene for this wintry, dream-like album. Phil's influence is very strong here - the jazzy drum bits are fantastic and Steve's sense of chord progressions in the guitar bits are wonderful.
Eleventh Earl of Mar Good tune, but doesn't stand to the heights of former album openers like DOTMK, "Down And Out" and "Dance On A Volcano". It indeed rocks too, albeit not flowing in such a smooth way alas to my ears, it brings one of the few moments on W&W where its dynamics end up somehow excessively complicating my listening experience. Interestingly, something alike happens to me on quite a few excerpts off ATOTT, I think the worst maybe on MMM - the jazzy section which begins with "Hey man ..." unfortunately leaves me cold...
I can totally understand that. These two albums (trick and wind) have always been mild stumbling blocks for me. I was always really surprised how relatively well they do in polls for Genesis albums, as for me they are lesser albums. I must say Wind has grown substantially in my eyes through this concerted listening process, to the point where i like and appreciate it quite a lot. Trick remains lower in my opinion. Its standing not having changed much. Bearing all that in mind, that doesn't mean i think they are bad.... For an example - Prior to the thread my go to albums would have been Nursery Cryme And Then There Were Three Lamb Duke In that order. Lamb slightly down merely due to length, time is not my ally. Now i can happily add Foxtrot Selling England And to a slightly lesser extent Trespass Wind and Wuthering I am kind of in anticipation of the Genesis, Invisible Touch, We Can't Dance and Calling all Stations albums now... though i still find it hard to believe they could stand above the seventies output ... Abacab is i suppose a guilty pleasure, but a couple of songs on it always irked me. Genesis i always liked, but it suffered the Brothers in arms problem for me, over exposure at the time. That whole period in time is what stopped me from listening to the radio. Anyhow I'm rambling.... Im going to go listen to some music, as my internet is down and the phone is a pain in the butt.. . Thank goodness i am not a streaming listener
Despite being blown away by “Eleventh Earl” at first, I can now see people’s point when they say it’s a less successful opener than some. The lyrics are a tad awkward in the verses, and the melody line doesn’t exactly flow that well, however the opening fanfare and crescendo make for a spine-tingling opening every time. Anything that’s wrong with the rest of the song though is more than redeemed by Steve’s “House of the Four Winds” bit in the middle (“Time to go to bed now....” etc) which is just absolutely gorgeous with the plucked nylon guitar over Tony’s lush wash of synths. It’s like a lovely cuddly blanket of warmth. And as someone said before, the crescendo and transition back into the main verse is an all-time classic Genesis moment.
I’m in the minority, but Eleventh Earl has always been kind of meh for me. It reminds me just a bit of Epping Forrest—strictly in the impression it leaves on me, not in musical similarity. It has nice energy but feels dense, and ultimately difficult to care about, with a stream of lyrics that have no emotional resonance for me (I’m still not sure what Phil’s going on about, despite everyone’s posts today!) Positives: I think the “there’s a band of light across your eyes” lyric is a nice moment. And I do VERY much like the wonderful quiet middle section, which is a welcome break in the action. I was perplexed when I heard the remix—given how they boosted the opening 45 seconds or so, thereby reducing a bit of the dynamic wallop when the drums/synth come in. Another example of the heavy-handed remix. I wonder if, in their mind, they were just correcting a “wrong” from the original mix. Anyone have any info on that? And if I’m being honest with myself, had I never heard the original mix, the immediate punch that the remix adds would be quite acceptable. It has more impact, admittedly. (But no one really wants their musical memories “tampered” with by these remixes, right?)
They went for a modern approach! Guess the driving force was Banks and Nick Davis. Hope this is ok to post!? Anyone interested in ND input to these mixes should read this Genesis News Com [it]: Genesis SACDs - Nick Davis talks to it about the new 5.1 mixes No talk about what they where aiming for, but interesting anyway... "it: We heard that the SACDs will replace the Definite Edition Remasters? Nick: Yes it: Does this also mean that the original mixes... Nick:...will be gone forever, yes. They will disappear. So everyone who's interested should keeo their original CDs." "it: Why do you think that the Remixes are better than the original mixes? Nick: I don't know if they are better [laughs]. Have I said they are better? Ok, I probably did. They are better! They are better in sonic terms. We had more time to work on them, and some of the transfer processes in earlier days have not been good. I don't think the first CDs are good. The remasteres are generally better. Some fans still favor the vinyl, that it's better than the CDs, maybe they cared more when transferring to Vinyl than transfering over to CD, I don't know. The first batch of Genesis CDs were just awful. So the remasters are better than those - maybe they are not better than the vinyl. I just think the new mixes are better, they got more bottom, more bass, more treble - in a nice way.I just think they sound sonically surperior. They don't sound too different, hopefully. I've tried to keep them as they were - cause I'm a fan and I grew up listening to them and I've worked on the remasters and I know pretty much what they should sound like. And I don't want to have mistakes in there. That would annoy me as well."
I love Eleventh Earl. Always have. Tremendous use of dynamics, and so many intertwined little hooks and melodies. Those four guys had played together for about seven years at that point, and it shows. They'd achieved a sound that was as unique as anything around at the time. I understand the lyrics being a bit knotty for fans who really focus on them. In this particular tune, I always thought the melody and lyrics worked well together. My go-to for W&W for years has been a Japanese pressing, no gatefold, probably from the late '70s/early '80s. There's just something about it that I can't really figure out. Even a cassette dub I made of it 20 years ago sounds better than any CD I've ever heard.
The main problem with the remixes is that they're brick walled (both CDs and SACDs), it's against everything the band stands for, as I see it. The vinyl editions are a bit better, though.
I miss the double drum roll just before the "bury your memories" line on the remix. There's just one drum on it so it doesn't have the same effect the original mix does, it lost most of the intensity the band builds on this part of the song. But that's just a small issue. I really like the remixes, they were carefully done indeed - the problem is the mastering. They didn't care about the dynamic range of the music and saturated it with tons of loudness.
...so to be fair,we have two different issues: remix and remastering. Maybe when the 50th anniversary editions roll around we might see the same care in the mastering as we’ve seen with the recent Kate Bush remasters. Certainly not before...
I love this one - it's got Mike's bass line that carries the verses and some good keyboard/guitar interplay like the old days. I personally enjoy the lyric itself, but it's a bit odd coming from Mike after Ripples. This live version though with Daryl is... well, just listen I promise. The amount of Mellotron used here is to die for.
With the box set discs ... They work for me. If i am listening at home, i only listen to 5.1 for any band, if that is an option in my collection. It is my substitute for headphones. The first time i ever listened to the cd's was doing this thread, and i was listening in the car, so in some ways if they are compressed that is better for listening in the car, due to all the extraneous noise when driving. They didn't seem brickwalled to me though, because sections still disappeared under road and car noise. Just my two cents there, for what its worth
Re: "11th Earl" lyrics... Yes, as mentioned, it does pertain to the concept of a young boy being told a bedtime story, with various bits either told from the perspective of the father or the boy. It's a wondrous track, very atmospheric, and I'm particularly taken by the wash of synths and rumble of drums throughout. This is basically a Tony/Steve/Mike composition, with Steve contributing the dancey middle and dreamy acoustic bits. It was amazing to see and hear this song performed live. When they opened the concert with it on the '78 tour, the power of the intro synths and bass pedals practically knocked you over, while the stage was bathed with intense red and blue lights that shifted with rise and fall of the synth chords. Jaw-droppingly good.
It's actually better without the "Eleventh Earl of Mar" refrain, which I always thought was a bit goofy. (No offense to anyone who might have named themselves after it.) This is another song where it would have benefited Phil to have the key a semitone or two lower.
[Pedantry]Less than six years, actually, if you consider that Steve joined up in early '71 and the album was written and recorded in late '76.[/Pedantry]
Right on, and yes kudos to your great thread , it has been pretty useful also to me, as it has helped me to improve my appreciation for some songs off Nursery Crime, Foxtrot and Selling England. And so true that about "Genesis" (and also Invisible Touch) overexposure to me... But curiously, the first time I read on the "DS album by album" thread the discussion about the particular overexposure suffered by "Brothers In Arms", at first I'd not even wondered whether something like that kind of spoiling experience would have ever happened to me too. .
The band deliberately did not include any W&W tracks on Seconds Out because they felt it was unnecessary to do so considering the recent release of the studio versions, and they did not want to make people pay for the same songs twice in the same year, or something to that effect. The exception of course was "Afterglow", that had been a showcase number during the tour, and which introduced the landing lights as seen on the album cover.
