Oh, yes, I suppose I'm mixing up the song with the overall medley. (Or maybe it was "Cinema Show" that was being discussed?) Still, I'd like to think the overall point I made about the shift in focus to the drums is valid.
Seconds Out This album was my introduction to all of the material on it except for the stuff from A Trick of the Tail and the old stuff that turned up on Three Sides Live. Due to that, I’ll likely always be fond of the album. However, it has declined in stature for me over the years if I’m being objective about it. The positives are the sound quality and the material. I mean, as a Genesis fan, it’s hard to look at the songs on this album and in any way be disappointed by it. When I first heard the album I had no basis of comparison for the Peter Gabriel-era stuff, because I’d never heard it. So even though I now think that, for example, the Supper’s Ready that the band put forth here suffers by comparison in spots with Phil on vocals instead of Gabriel (and has a glossy sheen instead the rawer, twisted splendor it had in 1973), what was I supposed to think as a rabid Genesis-discovering teen back in the day? It was Supper’s Ready – of course I was hooked. More objectively, I now regard the Supper’s Ready here to be one of the lesser parts of the album. In fact, I skip it more often than not. I was never a fan of Robbery Assault & Battery and, as the version here is more or less a re-creation of the studio track, I’m not into it either. I’m a big fan of Squonk and although the version here is a bit looser and less aggressive than the studio track, I like it well enough. Dance on Volcano and Los Endos are favorites of mine from ATTOT and although they don’t deviate all that much from the studio incarnations, I like them both more than Squonk here. To me, the best moments on the album are the Lamb medley (just great energy there) and the extended rendition of I Know What I Like. True, almost all of that song’s English eccentricity is scrubbed from the version that turns up here, but I just love the jamming instrumental section. I also really like Firth of Fifth and Cinema Show. I think both of those songs adapt well to the band’s 1976-78 higher tech and polish. But it’s on the subject of polish where I objectively have to dock this album some points – Seconds Out is so cleaned up (and overdubbed from what I’ve read) that it borders on sterile sounding.. That’s not what a live album is supposed to sound like. Rated in comparison to other live albums/shows I have from other bands across my collection, Seconds Out is kind of lacking for what I listen to live albums for, which is to give me something that the studio albums don’t have – even if it’s just atmosphere and energy. This album has no atmosphere. The material – while great – isn’t always very different from the studio album. When it does differ, I’m kind of split on whether or not it’s for the better. Judged on the basis of what I listen to live albums for and my overall enjoyment of the performances, I put Seconds Out behind Three Sides Live and maybe even Genesis Live ) as live albums. But as I said above, Seconds Out will always be inextricably linked in my head with my discovery and enjoyment of prog-era Genesis and for that I can never not like it, even the parts that I don’t really like - if that makes any sense.
"Duke" is Genesis' masterpiece. It bridges the gap between the proggy 70s and poppy 80s. A genuinely great album. With great artwork too!
Oh sure, the Phil/Chester combo really adds something to those pieces (although there are certain occasions when it's just Phil), but you're going to have these kinds of differences in studio vs. live anyway. It's just the nature of the beast. But what I do find quite interesting are the consternations some fans have over live versions simply for issues of difference, not execution.
That's all good mate. There's an index one or two pages back of everything we've done so far. If i remember i can alert you in approximately two weeks when we start it ... or you can just revisit in a couple of weeks
despite great material and performances I never really connected with seconds out as much as its neighbor live albums. I find those work better as full live albums (despite live being only one LP) wheras the sequence of seconds out always kinda left me cold. I particularly find afterglow sitting on it's own uninspiring. I may be incorrect but it always at least had in that quiet earth before it when performed live right, and of course it would become the finale of the cage medley in later years which is where I really love it in particular on three sides live. at the time I could see it as a important document but nowadays we have so many great bootleg sources (which I would happily buy officially if anyone from genesis is listening...) that I don't really return to it often.
I've been too busy to keep up so here's my thoughts on Seconds Out as a whole... I came to Genesis from the Shapes/Invisible Touch era. Knowing I liked those albums, a friend introduced me to ATOTT which was her only Genesis album. From there we jumped to Seconds Out which really started my exploration of the band. For that alone it is one of my favorites. I knew the songs from ATOTT but all the Gabriel era songs were new to me as was prog in general. When I looked at the track times and saw this was this song called Supper's Ready that was 24 minutes long - I had to give it a listen first. I didn't know what to think and Willow Farm confused me to no end but the more I listened the more I liked. I haven't listened to Seconds Out in a while - I usually listen to the bootlegs of the W&W tour. I gave it a spin this afternoon and realized how good it is. Now I'm off to play it loud!
This has been talked about to some extent in previous posts. They were limited to the time constraints of the double LP, so not everything was going to make it onto the album, and priority was given to tracks they wanted to include. There was a conscious desision to not include the W&W tracks since those songs were recently released on the studio album. “Afterglow” was an exception because it was a feature song played on the tour.
And lots of those great boots from this era are soundboard recordings, so I imagine the tapes are somewhere out there. Thankfully, Genesis offically condones the legal free trading of boots, and by extension uploading.
I can appreciate this view, but Phil’s delivery doesn’t bother me in this context (it probably would be bothersome if they were playing the whole Lamb, where staying in character is more important). With Seconds Out, to me, the “downs” are almost triumphant, feeding off the audience’s cheers over the opening piano riff. Phil could never pull off being Rael, so I like how he puts a different spin on it.
When Seconds Out was issued in October 1977 I had limited funds and therefore borrowed it from a friend at school who had recently become a fan of the band. I recorded it on a Boots C120 Tape which probably wasn’t the best quality although the equipment I had access to was pretty decent. I played the tape a lot alongside the bands other records and enjoyed it enough but in time got fed up with Phil’s vocal embellishments on The Lamb and other tracks. So I never got around to buying it while I was still into the band. Eventually I bought the 2009 box set with the remixed version and have since bought the Jap mini vinyl off eBay as I wanted the full set in that format. It’s not one I pull out too often but I would say Cinema Show is the highlight for me and one of the few Gabriel era songs where Phil did a comparable job in my opinion. To the poster that was asking about recording details for Seconds Out all but 2 tracks are taken from Paris with Carpet Crawl taken from the Leicester gig and Cinema Show from Glasgow the previous year. Suppers Ready is actually a composite from all four of the Paris run of gigs.
Supper's Ready My love of this song seems to have grown over the course of this thread quite a lot. It has gone from that song on the end of Foxtrot that I don't always listen to, to an essential piece of the Genesis picture. Here we have the Seconds Out live version and Phil doing an excellent job of the vocals and the band painting the aural landscape perfectly. It is quite astonishing in some ways that the intensity is held up over the full twenty four minutes. The track ends with a live fade, and is very effective that way, although it may have been nice to have a big slam chord finish also.
SR live - a remarkable piece. I like the version on SO very much and prefer parts of the live version over the studio version. The instrumental parts are arranged a bit differently and the band is really tight. A 25 minute epic done live is a risky move, but they pull it off.
They pulled out "Supper's Ready" very well with Phil on vocals. The song here seems far more consistent as whole. The original often feels like spliced together (which it probably was). The "Apocalypse in 9/8" keyboard solo works much better live. The twin drums are fantastic. Having said that, I feel "SR" works beter with Gabriel on vocals -- unlike many other classic era tracks -- so I generally prefer the original over the "Seconds Out" version. I have read many comments here and in the attached press clippings playing down "Seconds Out" over the alleged fact that it is, allegedly note for note rendition of the originals. I couldn't disagree more -- the fact that you have a different singer in about 2/3 of all songs, plus the double drums , plus the difference in many keyboard sounds to fit the live setting, plus significant differences in what the drums and bass guitar are playing in some instrumental sections (Firth of Fifth immediately comes to mind), the medleys, the jam in "I Know What I Like"... I think the "note-for-note" approach is more the exception than the rule here.
I will check this concert later. I think it is available on YouTube. I did hear a medley featuring "Moonlight Knight/Musical Box" which I found very interesting. However, Collins has some real problems hitting the high notes on "Moonlight Knight". I could see that the band might have some objections in commercially releasing this kind of thing, considering the trouble they went into to polish their live recordings in the box sets.
I was a big fan of Bank' songs but, as time went by,I have lost interest in his longer pieces. I still think "One for the Vine" is one of his best solo compositions but it is stll too long IMO. I tend to enjoy the collaborative songs more.
I just checked "In the Cage" from the 1978 tour -- when it was still being played as a standalone track, right after "11th Earl of Mar". It has the same ending as the 3SL version ("Oh! Get me out of this cage", followed by the long chords, etc.), except that the switch into the 7/8 time drumming patterns obviously never happens. So it was just how they chose to end the track, for beter or worse -- no reason to blame it on the medley. I'm adding the link to the concert: For anyone checking, the part we are dicussing can be found at 17:15 minutes approximately.
Chicago 1978 Hammersmith 1976 Los Angeles 1980 Zurich 1973 Montreal 1974 Three Sides Live probably is my go to for Abacab tour but shout out to London 1982 for the really awesome rendition of Supper's Ready with more modern synths and Daryl doing guitar and bass. Haven't listened to Lamb bootlegs so no idea, but there are definitely good boots of that tour also.
My impression is that folks are just overthinking this. As you say, they simply wanted an ending without the fadeout that is on the studio version, so they came up this particular idea. I think it works just fine. Also, it tied into the lighting effects with the mirrors on that tour. Apparently, they were satisfied enough with it that they've continued to use it on subsequent tours.
Cinema Show I think Cinema Show works magnificently here. It possibly is the peak of the set and Phil does the song justice and the band really lift it to the next level.
