Genesis's Dodo Suite - Naminanu: Intro or Outro?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by FireOnHigh, May 1, 2016.

  1. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I heard some sources say that Naminanu is the closer to the "Dodo Suite" yet others say that it's the starter of the suite. What do you think? And why? Please leave comments below, thank you.
     
    tug_of_war likes this.
  2. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Naminanu
    Dodo/Lurker
    Submarine

    Submarine is also BTW the answer to the riddle in the lyrics of Dodo/Lurker.
     
  3. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I know about Submarine, but how and why would you consider Naminanu as the intro?
     
  4. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    What's to consider? I've yet to see any reliable source claim otherwise.

    But OK...my "reasoning" is:

    1 - it wouldn't start with Submarine because why would the answer to the riddle come before the riddle?
    2 - Naminanu has a hard ending and Dodo/Lurker has a hard open which imply that they go together
    3 - also Dodo/Lurker ends with a similar tempo and feel as the opening of Submarine which implies they go together (with a crossfade)

    If alternately you mean it was Dodo/Lurker/Submarine/Naminanu or Submarine/Naminanu/Dodo/Lurker:

    1 - Submarine has a long fade out and Naminanu has a hard opening which don't "go together"
    2 - also Vocal/Instrumental/Instrumental doesn't make a lot of sense nor does Instrumental/Instrumental/Vocal especially when it would mean something like 9 minutes of instrumental music in a row
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  5. kouzie

    kouzie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Batavia, IL
    From a RollingStone.com:

    The most naggingly catchy gibberish in the Genesis discography, the instrumental "Naminanu" was recorded for Abacab but left off the final track list, showing up as the B-side for "Keep It Dark." But the band initially had big plans for the track, planning it as the opening piece of a "Dodo/Lurker" suite (which would have also included the discarded "Submarine"). Since Genesis were already moving away from long-form epics, it made stylistic sense to leave this one on the cutting room floor. Plus, with its neon-bright synth stabs and babbling hook, "Naminanu" sounds great on its own.

    Read more: "One for the Vine" - 20 Insanely Great Genesis Songs Only Hardcore Fans Know »
     
  6. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I never said anything about Submarine starting the suite, it's pretty damn obvious that it's supposed to follow Lurker. Besides, Naminanu begins with a quick but quiet drum roll that slowly builds up throughout the song. If Lurker can crossfade into Submarine, why not Submarine crossfading into Naminanu?

    If you listen to the beginning of Dodo on Abacab Complete, you can hear a faint countdown just before the song starts. Perhaps Naminanu is to Dodo what Duke's End is to Behind the Lines, a bookend.

    You'd never know if a source gets its facts accurate or not. Besides, if you look up Abacab Complete, it clearly has Naminanu as the big closer. Also, if you listen to the beginning of Dodo on Abacab Complete, you can hear a faint countdown just before the song starts, clearly proving that Dodo is meant to be the big opener.
     
    Hep Alien likes this.
  7. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    That's right - you never clarified the exact song order you meant, so I had to go to the trouble of addressing every alternative that you may have been implying/every alternative order that could have existed. Actually re-reading my post I think I missed one or two other possible song order variations.
     
    samskeyti likes this.
  8. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    WHAT???

    A song (on a bootleg no less!) that has a faintly audible count-in, is somehow proof of something?

    Clearly not!
     
    Instant Dharma likes this.
  9. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter




    You can clearly hear it right at the beginning, and Submarine sure does seem to segue into Naminanu seamlessly in the video, what more do you want?

    Is it really worth overreacting over like a storm in a teacup?
     
    The Bishop, Smartin62 and Pete Puma like this.
  10. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    What more do I want? Evidence....such as evidence that this medley was created by the band, and not a bootlegger or the creator of that youtube video.

    I don't know - is it worth overreacting to? You tell me.

    You asked the question, and then complained about the responses. If you don't care about the answers (that you essentially dismissed out of hand) and think you know everything then why did you ask the question in the first place?
     
  11. tspit74

    tspit74 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Woodridge, IL, USA
    I think it works best with Naminanu 1st. I do think they made the right choice on the album. Although I like all 3 tracks just fine. Submarine sounds like an outtake from Wish You Were Here and belongs in the previous decade. Abacab is perfect, Who Done It? And all.
     
  12. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    If that ain't enough for you, I honestly don't know what is.

    Do you have any evidence to counteract mine?

    Well when I make a calm comment, I expect a calm response. Okay?

    I guess I'm addicted to internet debates.

    How would it work in your opinion?
     
  13. the sands

    the sands Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    tug_of_war likes this.
  14. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I'm talking about "Dodo/Lurker" by Genesis.
     
  15. squonkduke

    squonkduke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Roma, Italy
    I'd go with the Abacab Complete sequence, which is Dodo/Lurker/Submarine/Naminanu.
    It makes sense, even because Abacab Complete is not actually a bootleg, but the faithful digital transfer of one of a handful Fisher Lane Farm advance cassette tapes given away to the press for review purpose.
     
    tug_of_war and LivingForever like this.
  16. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Why are you asking other people when you seem to have your mind made up. It ends up just making you seem argumentative.
     
    Roberto899, samskeyti, ARK and 4 others like this.
  17. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    They wanted the press to review "work in progress" rough mixes, which probably were several months away from release as an album?

    Yeah - I don't buy it.

    If they actually did, do you have any resultant example to cite of a contemporary press review of that so-called "advance cassette"?
     
  18. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Well you used the words "clearly proving" when the "proof" you offered (a count-in!?) barely even qualifies (if at all) as extremely weak circumstantial evidence.

    It seems clear to me that you aren't addicted to internet debates, but rather internet authoritarian proclamations.

    PS - you used the phrase "...it's pretty damn obvious..."

    That's a "calm comment"?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    Comet01 and ARK like this.
  19. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    I'm more interested in seeing how fans here and elsewhere would compile all the Abacab tracks into a nice 2-LP tracklist.
     
  20. FireOnHigh

    FireOnHigh Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I just wanted to know what other people think and feel. You know, looking at other's points of view.

    I'll ask again, do you have any evidence of your own to counteract mine?

    When I use words like damn and bloody, I don't always use them for hostile purposes.

    Me too.
     
  21. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    Did the band themselves ever even say the songs were supposed to be part of a suite? Like, in an interview or something? Or was a misconception that, since the four songs fade into one another on Abacab Complete, "oh, they must be part of a lost Dodo Suite"?

    Any who. I may be in the minority, but I'd say Naminamu would work best as the end of the suite. It has a sort of "80s action finale" feel to it, rather than that of an opening.
     
    tug_of_war and gabbleratchet7 like this.
  22. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    Did the band themselves ever even say the songs were supposed to be part of a suite? Like, in an interview or something?

    Or was a misconception that, since the four songs fade into one another on Abacab Complete, "oh, they must be part of a lost Dodo Suite"?
     
    tug_of_war likes this.
  23. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    Did the band themselves ever even say the songs were supposed to be part of a suite? Like, in an interview or something?

    Or was a misconception that, since the four songs fade into one another on Abacab Complete, "oh, they must be part of a lost Dodo Suite"?
     
    tug_of_war likes this.
  24. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    Did the band themselves ever even say the songs were supposed to be part of a suite? Like, in an interview or something?

    Or was a misconception that, since the four songs fade into one another on Abacab Complete, "oh, they must be part of a lost Dodo Suite"?
     
  25. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    Did the band themselves ever even say the songs were supposed to be part of a suite? Like, in an interview or something?

    Or was a misconception that, since the four songs fade into one another on Abacab Complete, "oh, they must be part of a lost Dodo Suite"?
     
  26. gabbleratchet7

    gabbleratchet7 Forum Resident

    Wikipedia has it correct when it has "citation needed" at the end of the mention of the Dodo Suite. It has been a while since I was last knee-deep in the minutia of Genesis lore, but my recollection is that there has never been any official mention by the band of a suite or the intention for one out of these tracks. The Complete Abacab is a nice thought, but it always sounded to me like cross-fades done after the fact.

    Submarine sounds to me like an early jam that was never finished, so was not likely a contender for the album's short list. Naminanu is nice (I remember trolling record shops for the b-side on 45 before the archives finally released it on CD). It is a neat piece in the same vein as Do the Neurotic, a b-side from the Invisible Touch sessions five years later. Can we speculate on a suite that includes that and Feeding the Fire?
     
  27. box of frogs

    box of frogs Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lincolnshire, UK
    I've always preferred it this way round: indeed, 'Abacab Complete' is my go-to version of this album. Lesser SQ/rough mixes, but I like the balance, completeness and transitional feel.
     
    tug_of_war likes this.
  28. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    Sorry for posting the same thing multiple times, something went wrong with my browser
     
  29. Sister Disco

    Sister Disco Forum Resident

    According to another post here, Abacab Complete is not just any bootleg where the tracks are thrown together in a random order, but a straight transfer of the Farm master tape the band was giving promo copies of to the press.

    So, perhaps it's not that unreasonable to assume there was a Dodo Suite, and the order on the bootleg is the "correct" order.

    Also, some might be wondering why the band didn't include songs like Paperlate, You Might Recall, and Me & Virgil on the album. According to Phil in the Genesis book I have, the record company did not allow them to use those leftover songs, for whatever reason.
     
    tug_of_war likes this.

Share This Page