George Carlin's 1st Appearance On The Tonight Show w/ Mort Sahl

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MortSahlFan, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    The whole thing was like a movie. Oh wait, it was. Damn good TV movie too.
    Leno to Helen-YOU HAD ME LIE TO JOHNNY CARSON!
     
  2. boyjohn

    boyjohn Forum Resident

    You get the feeling that if Sahl would have gotten the Tonight show it would be looked back on by people with a sense of awe.....but it wouldn't have lasted 30, or probably even 5, years.
     
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  3. Jay_Z

    Jay_Z Forum Resident

    Sahl comes across as halting and awkward in that clip with Carlin. As a viewer, it would have driven me up the wall to see that night after night. Cavett was better at reaching that niche.
     
  4. boyjohn

    boyjohn Forum Resident

    Well, it took Carson quite a while to settle into a groove, the reviews at the beginning weren't so hot. I'm sure Sahl would have done the same. I think Sahl would have been a lot more interesting to watch (at least for me).
     
  5. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    And Carlins impression of Sahl was dead on.
     
  6. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    Here's a show the day before..... Give Mort five years, and it could have been even a lot better. Personally, I think any of the shows he hosted was better than any Carson... And Jay Leno was disinterested, and would always repeat back what the guest just said, which is an old showbiz trick to pretend you're involved and interested.

     
    Dave112 likes this.
  7. Randall DeBouvre

    Randall DeBouvre IS EVERYBODY HAPPY???

    Location:
    Illinois
    sahl could be an awkward guest on talk shows at times. on dick cavett, he got his lunch handed to him by john simon, someone who I don't care for.
    sahl-you have no sense of humor, john.
    simon -if having a sense of humor is doing what you do , then I would just as soon as not have it, thank you.
    the two other female guest on the show totally ignored him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  8. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    Mort seemed drunk or something.
     
  9. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    George was boosted at the start by Mort and Lenny Bruce.
    In my mind during that pre 63 era along with Mort and Lenny, Shelley Berman and Bob Newhart led the way(not dismissing Winters and others).
    Then came Cosby. After George passed Cosby admitted that one of the routines on his first blockbuster album in 62, Little Tiny Hairs, was stolen from George. This was a serious breach of comics etiquette. Carlin never said a word about it but openly avoided Cos whenever possible.
    Knowing that, listen again to that track(if you can) and tell me you do not hear Carlin and his sports stuff even with Burns.
     
    DISKOJOE likes this.
  10. Honestly, you think so little of Carsons abilities as a host, interviewer, and intertainer, to label him this way?.........................................Okay.
     
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  11. AL01

    AL01 Eh?

    Location:
    Texas
    Imagine if George Carlin took over the Tonight Show in his later years...

    That would be interesting, (and pretty funny) to say the very least.
     
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  12. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    Yes, it would be... Give Mort Sahl or George Carlin 30 years to cultivate an audience, and I think it would be a lot better.
     
    AL01 likes this.
  13. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    My mom and dad WERE his audience. I could hear the show and them laughing when I was in bed. I got to see the show sometimes on Fridays before I crashed. Johnny was a great host, had lots of talents, great writers, and a supporting group of regulars who could be counted on to help out(who also became iconic). Tell me the band with Skitch and especially Doc Severin wasn't the hottest band on TV.
    My thought is someone saw Johnny wasted as a game show host.
    There are a lot of bad things I could say about Carson, but the good things far exceed the bad. So many got their break when Johnny saw them and brought them on the show.
    I seem to recall George Carlin also guest hosted for Carson. Would love to see that again.
     
  14. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    You might be able to see it on the DECADES channel. I don't have it, but I'm constantly hearing the great shows that appeared the night before.
     
  15. boyjohn

    boyjohn Forum Resident

    I think the problem with Carson is that he had 5-10 years of really interesting stuff, and then just coasted for about 20. It was kind of a waste of his talent.
     
  16. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    Have you heard this?

     
  17. nojmplease

    nojmplease Host, You Can't Unhear This

    Location:
    New York, NY
    It's mind-blowing that Mort Sahl is not only still alive, but also still doing comedy (he was livestreaming during the pandemic, even). Probably the most 'forgotten' major comic of his era, which is a shame, since he was extremely influential at the time on the entire field of comedy.
     
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  18. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    Unfortunately with him being in San Francisco, California, the theater he worked at weekly was shut down.. He took questions from a live audience, but also from anyone online. First time he wasn't around to satirize the new administration.

    I have a lot of friends and family who love stand-up, but they just throw their hands up in the air saying they didn't "get it" after spending an entire 5 minutes. I'm in my 30s, so I had to do a lot of checking for references, and I still find new things to marvel at. The way he free associates, using stream of consciousness, and sarcasm that isn't so obvious is also a bit difficult, but I think it was worth it, in part because I learned more about my country, including a lot of things you'll never discover just by reading books or a documentary, which seem to focus on the big events -- war, depression, etc., instead of what I like - zeitgeist so I can "be there"... Since the 50s, I've read Mort say in interviews that he never wanted to dumb down his material because he felt the audience was smarter than he was, and never wanted to be condescending. And after reading a ton of other journalists, I saw many say "Me and my readers might understand this, but this won't play in the Midwest", or "This won't play on TV", until he hit his peak popularity in 1960, when he was writing for JFK after being hired by Joseph Kennedy. Another thing I noticed from newspapers.com was how much he was in demand every 4 years, and how many headlines asking, "Whatever happened to Mort Sahl?", instead of asking him.

    It's nice to see reverence for George Carlin (and even Bill Hicks), but when I hear people constantly say (especially Twitter), "If only we had Mort Sahl during these hard times" while he was performing is sad. Or people who quote lesser comedians but never having even heard of Mort Sahl, but those same people will throw the name Lenny Bruce around. When I ask them about him, they never seem to know anything about him, and one honest guy basically admitted he was mythologizing his reputation without having heard any of his records. "I heard he was important" is another common phrase.

    People could have easily typed "Mort Sahl" anywhere and see he's been working every single week for over a decade, but the early shows weren't recorded (which is traveled thousands of miles to see him) and then around 2015ish, the shows were recorded, but would expire in 24 hours, but luckily I recorded some and put them on YouTube. His absence has been the biggest absence in my life -- I miss having something to look forward to week, but he's almost 95, and even if the theater opens back up, it might be difficult for him to start back up again, but I wonder why the owner couldn't set up something for him from his apartment in Mill Valley. He was still very sharp, funny, and profound in 2020.
     
  19. nojmplease

    nojmplease Host, You Can't Unhear This

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Sounds like the perfect premise for a long overdue documentary / biopic! You've even got a title ready: "Whatever Happened to Mort Sahl?"
     
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  20. halfjapanese

    halfjapanese Gifs moider!

    In '66 the Kraft Summer Music Hall aired. Richard Pryor and George Carlin were the comics. Both were doing funny, tame bits.
    Pryor: ala Cosby's kids stuff - "My name is Rumplestiltskin and I'm a meany."
    Carlin's news reports: "In labor news, longshoremen walked off the pier today. [pause] Rescue operations are underway."
     
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  21. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    George went from being edgy, to tame, and then back to edgy around 1969
     
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  22. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Edgy or not, his Take Offs and Put Ons album is still funny. The thing is I discovered George when no one else I knew heard of him. I was stealing Indian Sergeant and Cristopher Columbus for the playground the next day.
    I can vividly remember watchin That Girl and George was her agent on the fire escape. I yelled "That's George Carlin!", my dad said "who?"
    Honestly there were times I missed that period of George.
     
    halfjapanese likes this.
  23. This is not a dismissal of, or disrespective jab at, Mort Sahl...it is simply a differing perspective.
    Maybe Mort Sahl did get his shot, numerous times over many decades, and he just did not have that thing to push him over the hump of that time.

    Mort Sahl is certainly not an unknown entity.
     
    Dave112 likes this.
  24. MortSahlFan

    MortSahlFan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    That episode was just on MeTV I think.

    I never liked The Hippy Dippy Weather Man. I do love his bit, "Everybody's a Rat", which I don't think was released on an album. I think my favorite special is "Jammin' in NY"

     
  25. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
     
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