My version has "3 dots" and I don't think it's a DE. See post 405. I don’t have the DE, only samples.
I don't doubt anything, it's just that I am having trouble finding the time to keep up with all of this. Keep posting results and it'll be here when people need to do research, but it's gotten pretty confusing.
Could I somehow prompt all of us to do something like was done in the Genesis threads? (These are the ones I'm mainly interested in, but it could be done for the earlier ones too.) This is from memory, the preferred CDs: LTIA: original. SABB: I'm unclear on this one. There's the original, DE, and 30th, and it seems as though different people have liked different ones. (Hint: I'd still be interested in someone putting up clips of the true original to compare to the DE I have.) Red: original. Discipline: not the 30th. But no consensus yet on original vs DE? Beat: not the 30th. But no consensus yet on original vs DE? TOAPP: original?
? The provenance of the 'alternate mixes' of "Sleepless" and "Matte Kudasai" is clear: these first appeared on the 'Definitive Edition' remaster series... that is, the first set of KC remasters that Fripp was involved in. It was Fripp's choice to substitute different mixes for these two songs. Prior to the DE series, all releases of Discispline and ToaPP used the original album mixes. The original album mixes of these two tracks were 'officially' restored to their respected CDs (though not necessarily in their original position) for the 30th Anniversary remaster series. The 'alternate mixes' were also included. Again, Fripp's call. If there's confusion about this, there shouldn't be.
Good idea, Kevin! This is how I recall the consensus: There a some people who like the 30th Anniversary Edition for every disc (John Buchanan / Antonkk / etc.). Among the likes of Jeff & Dr. M it looks like this: LTIA: 30th Anniversary for less top end boost (but LTIA Pt. 2 is compressed!) / Original for more natural tonality SABB: 30th Anniversary for less top end boost / Original for more natural tonality Islands: 30th Anniversary for 'clarity' & improved source material / Original for more natural tonality Wake: 30th Anniversary for 'clarity' / Original for more natural tonality Lizard: see Wake Red: Original Discipline: Original E'G Beat: Original E'G TOAPP: Original E'G ITCOTCK: Original Master Edition for clarity & improved source material / Original E'G for more natural tonality (Jeff particularly disliked the EQ'ing on the OME making the drums sound unnatural) To sum it up I guess the 80's discs and Red are the only cases where there has not been too much controversy. In my personal opinion the 30th Anniversary Edition isn't bad at all but 30th-Red & 30th-Discipline are atrocious. Compressed and over-bright. Typical examples for bad 'mainstream'-remastering.
During my search for an Original Discipline I've crome across someone who suspected that the Definitive Edition of Discipline is identical to the Original. I have no way of refuting this since I don't own the Original. Could someone provide me with Original-E'G-Discipline-Peak-Values? Thanks in advance!
Here's the EG/Caroline Discipline, pressed by EMI JAX: Track 1 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track01.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC AF4C48DC Copy OK Track 2 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track02.wav Peak level 94.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 490CDB81 Copy OK Track 3 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track03.wav Peak level 65.2 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 39B80AE2 Copy OK Track 4 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track04.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC AB3E0780 Copy OK Track 5 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track05.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 1086C513 Copy OK Track 6 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track06.wav Peak level 91.9 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC DFA19407 Copy OK Track 7 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track07.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC A1CBB664 Copy OK
And this is the EG/Warner Brothers Discipline CD: Track 1 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track01.wav Peak level 99.9 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 48070F93 Copy OK Track 2 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track02.wav Peak level 90.5 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 276666D7 Copy OK Track 3 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track03.wav Peak level 96.4 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 2B105BF0 Copy OK Track 4 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track04.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 2B410DC2 Copy OK Track 5 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track05.wav Peak level 95.8 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 815A62FD Copy OK Track 6 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track06.wav Peak level 65.5 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 3DF86135 Copy OK Track 7 Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\Track07.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 7E4E7A66 Copy OK
I don't know what is going on here. I have two very different sounding versions of ToaPP. One is the very standard DE version which has the very standard "Sleepless" and the other is a non-DE version, which I have provided an abundance of scanned imagery from, and it has the alternate "Sleepless." One of these is a DE, the other is not, unless there's a third edition out there. I'm going to assume the one that actually says "Definitive Edition" actually is, and the one that doesn't, isn't, until I have some way of determining that the other way around is somehow, illogically, true. As for my copy of Discipline, I can only assume that it is a non-DE, but it has the alternate "Matte Kudasai" on it. It is a West Germany Polydor, matrix numbers are 800099 2 01 and there's an A J stamped into it, on a silver disc with a two blue lines around the outside edge (one thin, on the inside, the other very thick.) If someone can tell me which version I have, I'd love to know - I'll seek out the other version of Discipline for comparison if it's somehow a DE with absolutely no indication.
@Simon: You're welcome! (I did that from my memory, I hope it's correct) @Jeff: Thanks (once again)! But the values are not only informative but also interesting! No Discipline peaks have been posted in this thread so far, so it may surprise that both of my Discipline Definitive Editions (Virgin 0777x + E'G 09185x) share the same peak values as your Caroline / EMI Jax! So one could assume that this is also a DE and that the Warner Brothers thing is the real deal. But this is unlikely given 93curr's comments regarding TOAPP: But then again: my Polydor Discipline has different peak values (81.5 % is the highest peak!). Do those two versions you own sound alike to you, Jeff?
I received this disc today. It's a MPO. I'm very happy about the sound compared to my other versions.
Yes it looks the same as mine. Mine also has "Compact Disc MPO France" around the centre hole. Matrix: EGCD 1 MPO 01 @. I think I spot a 04 instead of the 01 on your picture.
Hi, The pictured one is not mine. I found the image in another thread, I posted it because mine looks the same. My matrix is: EGCD 1 MPO 04 @ Do your peak values match these? : Peak level 95.5 % Peak level 53.4 % Peak level 63.6 % Peak level 21.2 % Peak level 91.9 %
I own the same disc as ricks: EGCD 1 MPO 04 @ and it has the same peak values. So it's an Original mastering with slightly deviant peaks, right? Congrats, Doc!
Thank you. I have compared it to the samples Jeff posted and it’s the same mastering only different levels. I was hoping to pick this one up locally but after hunting for a year without finding it I began trawling eBay. I even spent some time looking there too before I managed to find one. I guess the original EG is rarer than I thought to begin with.
I found it on the German Amazon marketplace from a private seller. It was the cheapest one and he was so kind to send me a photograph. But the both of us have yet to find the Original E'G Discipline unless Jeff confirms that his two Disciplines sound alike (the EMI / Jax one is most likely a Definitive Edition as the levels match with my two DEs).
Here is the info on my version of Discipline. While it does not state where it was made, I believe this is a German press. Haven't played it in years so I don't remember what it sounds like. Thought I'd run it through EAC since a few members here are talking about it. Discipline EGCD 49 Barcode info: 5 012985 304924 EAC extraction logfile from 19. April 2008, 11:13 for CD King Crimson / Discipline Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A Adapter: 1 ID: 0 Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache Read offset correction : 48 Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No Used output format : C:\Program Files\FLAC\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder) 128 kBit/s Additional command line options : -V -8 -T "artist=%a" -T"title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s Other options : Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No Installed external ASPI interface Track 1 Filename C:\EAC Rip\01 - Elephant Talk.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.42 Peak level 81.5 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 19EAC6C5 Copy CRC 19EAC6C5 Copy OK Track 2 Filename C:\EAC Rip\02 - Frame by Frame.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00 Peak level 78.8 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC C7E515C8 Copy CRC C7E515C8 Copy OK Track 3 Filename C:\EAC Rip\03 - Matte Kudasai.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00 Peak level 73.2 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC D02C2CB9 Copy CRC D02C2CB9 Copy OK Track 4 Filename C:\EAC Rip\04 - Indiscipline.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00 Peak level 76.8 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC CEAA936F Copy CRC CEAA936F Copy OK Track 5 Filename C:\EAC Rip\05 - Thela Hun Ginjeet.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00 Peak level 79.4 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 573A431B Copy CRC 573A431B Copy OK Track 6 Filename C:\EAC Rip\06 - The Sheltering Sky.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.01 Peak level 67.5 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 5A6DBEF1 Copy CRC 5A6DBEF1 Copy OK Track 7 Filename C:\EAC Rip\07 - Discipline.wav Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00 Peak level 81.2 % Track quality 100.0 % Test CRC 39FB299D Copy CRC 39FB299D Copy OK No errors occured End of status report
This matches mine, which was printed in West Germany by PolyGram. What version of "Matte Kudasai" do you have? By the way, I must take back what I said earlier - when I put my copy in to EAC to extract, it came up as "Discipline (Remastered)." If this is how the remaster (DE) sounds, I am very excited to track down a non-remaster sounds like. Now how to find one . . . ?
@hatfield & tcj: This version is identical to my Polydor which has a completely different BAR-Code. Polydor is a sub-company of PolyGram (portmanteau of Polydor + Deutsche Grammophon) so it's like owning an IBM and a Lotus version of something. This Polydor version is considered superior to the 30th Anniversary Edition but Jeff, being the only one who is able to compare Original E'G vs. Polydor, said it's inferior to the Original E'G. IIRC he said part of the bass frequencies have been shaved of. Damn those Germans! Dr. M also put it above the 30th Anniversary Edition (I second that) and said it sounded close to his vinyl version. So this disc is good but not the ultimate version. I haven't heard any comments on the Definitive Edition yet (compared to Polydor / Original E'G / 30th Anniversary Edition).
