Hana SL -- I hate it

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BigMikeATL, May 28, 2020.

  1. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone
    Not sure that's true lol
    As you can see I added to my post as it became clearer to me. Assuming it IS correct :D

    One person could clear this up...
    Paging Mr. Hoffman
     
  2. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    This came up in another thread I just can't remember which. But apparently the cartridges were measured at 5cm/sec but then the values multiplied as if they had been measured at 3.54, so the numbers are high by approx. 40%.

    I think I'm paraphrasing that correctly.
     
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  3. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone
    You are correct
    Found this on another site
    So multiple (or divide by) 1.4

    "The difference between 3.54 and 5 is Root 2, or 1.414. It's the difference between a purely lateral motion where L and R are equal and a L only or R only modulation."


    I see how they do it
    When using 2 channels it is 1/cos(45) = 1.424 = sqrt(2) times more that 1 channel

    it is also liner with speed : 5/3.54 = 1.41 or sqrt(2)
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  4. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    I recently thought my SL was wearing out- sounded dark and muffled... today I realized the gain switch on my SUT had gotten flipped at some point and I hadn't noticed!
    it's a bob's sky 20, it was set to 20 dB instead of the normal 10 which meant the SL was seeing 117 ohms instead of 470. flipped it back to 10 dB and the SL sounds great again. :righton: I wonder how many hours the SL has left in it, it is a few years old now.
     
  5. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    I thought the EL sounded too bright on my 1200 mk2. Beautiful and musical detail, but too much up top, and the lower and higher frequencies seemed too separated--it was airy and breathed, but too airy. So I put the Hana on the P3, even though I dreaded the process of installing it, and it immediately sounded much warmer and fuller.
     
  6. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Duh...



    :bdance:
    -Bill
     
  7. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA

    Care to elaborate, so I can appreciate your wit in its full glory?
     
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  8. mkane

    mkane Strictly Analog

    Location:
    Cloverdale, CA
    Load it down if possible or, drag its tail a bit.
     
  9. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    I did, and I messed with VTA, weight, etc. Couldn't get it to sound OK -- the top and bottom sounded strangely separated and there was almost too much detail on top. It sounds much more natural and integrated on the P3 even without shims. Still bright at times, but my sense so far, after just a few hours of listening, is that it accurately recreates the tonality of pressing, so if the album is bright, that's just how it sounds. But with warmer albums, it's really terrific.
     
  10. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    The Rega has a much better arm, and the deck design allows a more dynamic sound over the full audio band. Basically, it's no wonder it sounds better on what is a more transparent platform. The Technics is solid, but does have its limitations as a platform for high end cartridges. It's strong suit is environmental isolation.
    -Bill
     
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  11. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    I actually find the 1200 more transparent and the P3 warmer/fuller. I also think the 1200 is more energetic and the P3 slightly more musical. I've seen that across carts. And with some carts the 1200 sounds much better. Just the nature of synergy. I don't think that means one is superior to the other, and I wish that kind of black and white way of thinking weren't such a pervasive part of the audiophile culture, since it's reductive and unhelpful. But what was weird about the 1200/Hana combo in this case, though, and this is the reason I posted the comment, isn't that it was brighter, since variation across TTs is to be expected, but that it just didn't sound right.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  12. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Amen. I have a 1210GR and a nice belt-drive table. I’ve ran my Hans SL on both tables. Not surprisingly, each has its strengths. It’s a tossup on which I prefer, however, a GR costs less than half that of my belt-drive table, so in terms of value I suppose the Technics has an advantage.
     
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  13. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    What was the VTA on each deck?

    JohnK
     
  14. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    This made me wince - and I'm Russian...
     
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  15. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    Tried a whole range on the 1200 but it didn't make much of a difference. The P3 is default--I didn't add any spacers.
     
  16. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    :D
    -Bill
     
  17. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    One of the dangers of this place...

    After this discussion about tonearms and such I decided to bring my Harman-Kardon T65 out of the basement and put the Hana on.

    I’ve got it pretty well set up for now and will give a few listens to see if I notice a difference. Another rabbit hole to start the week...!
     
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  18. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    Just FYI, I installed the Hana EL on the 1200 mk2 again. It sounds fantastic now. I have the VTA at 2.5 and the weight somewhere around the lighter side of things. Not sure what's changed--maybe I just grew to understand its sonic signature better. The separation between high and low frequencies is unlike the warmer carts I typically use, and it's not quite as balanced as the Ortofons, which are the only bright/neutral carts I own, so maybe it just seemed unusual to me for those reasons. FWIW, adjusting the VTA and weight makes a difference, individually and together (higher VTA and less weight each yields more detail and dynamic range, though you lose some of the warmth, particularly with weight adjustment).
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  19. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    What are you using for VTF and anti-skate?
     
  20. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    1.5, which I'm pretty sure is below the recommended range. But just to be clear that's the value on the measuring ring on the weight--I didn't do a precise measurement (don't have the tools for that), so that might not be super exact. I've found that generally increasing weight increases warmth but loses detail/separation. Anti-skate is on 0, actually--haven't messed with that setting. Any thoughts as to what it should be and how sound would be impacted?
     
  21. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Ah okay - I typically set my VTF to 2.0 with my VTA set to 0.5. I’ve actually found little benefit from the antiskate setting (no matter what I set it to, it makes no difference) so I just match the VTF number and forget it which most set ups recommend. That said, I read somewhere that certain stylus profiles need different anti-skate settings, so I don’t know. As I said, I don’t find any discernible change in the sound.

    I should mention I’m using a 1200GR so I’m not sure how much that differs from the older 1200s.
     
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  22. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    That sounds like the sweet spot in terms of weight. I've found that even moving up from 1.5 to 1.7 makes an audible difference . I just don't want to put too much pressure on it since I don't know the precise figure, so I'm being conservative with it for the moment. I think I'll buy a force scale gauge and play with the VTF again. Will report back.
     
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  23. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    So, I've been using it at VTF @ 2 and VTA at a full range. It's a beautiful, delicate cart, and with some pressings (e.g., the Cure's Mixed Up) it's really wonderful, but overall it isn't full bodied enough for me. I've tried it with the 801 and the PM8006 and with Lintons and Cornwalls with the same results. I've played it for 30+ hours now, so it should be somewhat broken in, too, so I don't think that's it. Just not my cup of tea. Anyone have any ideas where I could sell it and for how much?
     
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  24. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    I’m not sure what you could get but I have to imagine there are folks that would take it off your hands. Perhaps browse the classifieds section for comparison?
     
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  25. three_paws

    three_paws deleted account

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks. Haven't found anything on point, but will keep digging.
     
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