I added a post that might have come while you were typing that was much more cool. There are other posts in this thread that are just as critical if not far more so. I'm sorry but I am not ashamed of anything written here, I wasn't making any sarcastic remarks about reading the crowd temperature or telling someone to feel ashamed. I would say threads like that can be potentially dangerous because they are only showing interested parties a single side of the story, and if they only see the good they might end up making a blind buy on something that turns out they didn't like and could have been avoided had they read more critical opinions. Even if someone does not end up buying something based on a "fans only" or "appreciation only" thread it could result in wasted hours or money spent on travel if they chose to hear these products only based off of one sided information. A Google search for Audio Note SH Forums shows that to be the second result. I only take such trips if there are other things to enjoy in the area and why I have yet to hear some products I am interested in when dealers are in places that have nothing else to see or do. @Agitater brought up some really good points that were worth addressing, but instead they weren't.
You’re being a bit obscure about this simple matter. Harbeth speakers are sold in pairs. This is not Polk Audio products sold through Best Buy where people sometimes build a surround sound HT system one or two speakers at a time. Nor does Harbeth (or AN UK for that matter) compete in the low-end consumer marketplace for the lowest sale price feature (by pricing singly). Instead of gazing mutely at the Planet of Sound Harbeth page, you could have started a chat in the pop-up window and found out what @Norco74 seemed to be able to find out in a minute or two. Priced per pair. In Canada - Toronto certainly - Harbeth Super SHL5+ is dramatically less expensive than the AN-E-LX but to my ears worth more. Anybody doing business at retail or wholesale trying to follow your lead in the foregoing paragraph would slowly be driven mad. In fact, exchange rates can vary dramatically in the weeks and months after a retailer has acquired inventory of some particular off-shore product from Europe, the U.S., the UK or Japan. Tracking exchange rates would mean, then, that a customer who was quote a price for a pair of Harbeth Monitor 30.1 speakers one week could come back to make the purchase two weeks later and find that the price had dropped or risen because of exchange fluctuations. Basically, no reputable (or successful) retailer can tie his list prices to a floating exchange rate. Distributors have to buy sufficient inventory to buffer against the vagaries of exchange rate fluctuations, so that their retailers can then present stable pricing to their domestic market. Any other approach, particularly in fragile retail markets like mid-to-high=end audio, can end up being retail suicide. Retail customers in any country have to be able to rely on stable pricing or that simply stay away in droves. You’ve been misinformed about pricing methods, wholesale buying and the ways in which exchange rates and import duties are structured. As an example, the Harbeth distributor for Canada is based in Canada. Import duties are lower for products coming from the UK in to Canada, the distributor negotiated directly with Harbeth a fair market price for Canada rather than a pound-to-dollar exchange rate price (because the UK market doesn’t have to be protected from Canadians trying to purchase directly (i.e., online) from a UK retailer (because the landed price in Toronto would be absurdly high). The result is a dollar for dollar competitive price when compared to the U.S. retail price. That’s sensible and fair to consumers. In almost every case where a European manufacturer authorizes its products to a U.S.-based distributor, a Canadian dealer calling the manufacturer directly will get into a conversation in which, at some point, the manufacturer reveals that he thinks the retail pricing is somehow the same in Canada as it is in the U.S. They’re bloody ignorant or they possibly just don’t care enough about the smaller Canadian marketplace. That said, John Costanzo at My Kind of Music (in Toronto), a long-time Nottingham retailer (superb turntables) just became the Nottingham distributor for Canada. Like the Harbeth distributor, he explained the Canada vs. U.S. retail pricing/dollar realities and is negotiating fair prices for Canadian retailers. To Nottingham’s credit, they get it and clearly understand that different regions demand pricing that respects the realities in the respective domestic national market. Several Canadian retailers deal directly with AN UK. The speakers are more expensive because AN UK has positioned itself, based on its wholesale rate to the small-time distributor based in Quebec, as a higher priced product. There’s nothing more to it than that. AN UK/Qvortrup thinks his AN-E speakers are better than everyone else’s and prices them accordingly. As several members have posted clearly in this thread, myself included, to our ears the AN-E and J are inferior to Harbeth speakers which are also typically less expensive as well. If Qvortrup wants greater traction, he can drop his wholesale prices in Canada and improve his volume. If he’s already content with the business he’s doing in Toronto, then mazel tov to him. To my ears the AN-E-LX is not a bad speaker - far from it. It’s just that I and some others in this Harbeth thread like Harbeth speakers - the Monitor 30.1 and the Super SHL5+ - far, far, more. Planet of Sound (retailer) is an affiliate of Audio Alliance (wholesale distributor, same owner) that was the Harbeth distributor in Canada. That changed recently - another distributor took over and has put Harbeth into a few more retailers across Canada and into two more retailers in the greater Toronto area (plus the long-time dealer Planet of Sound). In every case in which there is a Canada-based distributor for off-shore products from Europe, Japan and elsewhere, Canadian retail prices are very competitive.[/QUOTE]
It was all water off my back until you suggested that the "fans of AN" thread was anything other than what I experience it as-- an appropriately named and detail-rich chronicle of things Audio Note. Richard and Agitater can hash it out and I will respect them both. Yours was a cheap shot. That's all I'm saying.
You’re right, and I’m partly responsible so I apologize. I recently picked up a Luxman L-590 integrated amp for my main system. It’s driving my Harbeth Monitor 30.1 speakers and I can’t say enough about the setup. To my ears, it’s audibly better in every way compared to my former top dog LFD NSCE MKII. I’d say quite a bit more about the Luxman/Harbeth combo actually, but I’m too distracted listening to album after album to find the time. It’s a truly great pairing.
What you experience it as and what it serves as are two different things, it was not a cheap shot. It's calling it only one sided opinions in a thread that has a high search index rating. It is greatly benefiting AN with no downside to them at the potential expense of the consumer. These aren't cheap products either that you can just pack up and have Amazon give you a prepaid label on. If I was thin skinned I would say telling me I should be ashamed for making someone else feel bad was much more offensive/bigger cheap shot than anything I've written. Now I am not addressing this to you- this is a general comment that people shouldn't feel so attached to "things" and such making objects a part of them, such that if something critical is said about a product, brand, marketing tactic that it is a personal attack on them. One more comment on Harbeth so this isn't going completely off the rails- the one time I emailed them about a specific setup question I was really impressed with the level of detail they gave about my specific to my scenario. Everything they wrote was completely inline with known diffusion/absorption, polar patterns, as well.
Pretty sure the 590 is class A. Probably help with keeping Agitator warm in the winter as well. Like a pair of wool socks for the living room.
I read the first sentence of your response, and then I thought, “I’ve learned all I can here. Time to go.”
Many audio board have dedicated sub forums specific to single brands like McIntosh or Magnepan etc. The AN thread is not a sticky or dedicated fan forum but a thread. And it made sense for this forum to have a thread since Steve Hoffman has a couple of pairs of AN E speakers, amps, sources etc and numerous others on this forum who own the speakers and or other components as well. Judging by the number of posts and views ot wasis a pretty good thread. Had CAM realised that views and posts is actually good for their forum rankings and revenue they might have selected to keep the poster offering good advice most of the time than keep some of the trolls who usually only ever made cranky troll replies and never had anything positive to contribute. Forums are not representative of reality or the greater market and while a given group of people who likely won't or can't afford AN may pile on me or suggest that I am an isolated reviewer who backs AN UK the truth of the matter is that they've been well reviewed for decades by most every publication. Like I said in my Magnepan example. I am not a big fan but regardless of my preference they are successful. This is why I don't particularly care what a few axe to grind posters say about what I like or dislike. Indeed, I asked PQ years ago if my posts bothered him or hurt his company. Nope. My dealer in Canada was Thrilled that I was posting on forums like CAM. A Thread there about AN was the biggest most read thread at that forum. I got death threats LOL. People get testy. Why it didn't bother Soundhounds is because it drove people to go to the store to go and listen on a pretty well set up space. More feet in the shop helps sales. Even if they bought something else, it becer bothered Terry. They made more sales. Good for them. I get a lot of PMs and messages from people who have been very happy with my suggestions of Kingko amps and Line Magnetic and AN. Several of them who were Highly beligerant of me on forums went and auditioned and thanked me and wound up selling their gear and buying Audio Note. Indeed, it took one poster about 5 auditions to come around. He was always blasting me and the sound at shows and poorly set up dealers. But he hears Warren Jarrett's set up and admitted that he was wrong and it was the best sound with ease at a show. So one reason I don't get too weary engaging in these discussions is that I am fairly sure I am correct and in time with the right setups people come around. All advertising is viewed by some companies as good advertising. I got my review position BECAUSE of my long spiral threads on internet forums. My bias for what I like is stated up front. People who read me know what I like and my very strong preferences. The reviewers with clear preferences at least you know where we stand. What has bothered me is when I speak to reviewers in person and they have raved about one speaker but tell me they prefer another like speaker that costs less, more. The reviewers who claim they aren't biased are liars. Everyone has a bias. I would like to know what it is up front. You like Beethoven Piano Sonatas why would you NOT make a thread about that? You are not alone. There are all kinds of Beatles threads in the Music forum. Hell there is a Madonna thread! Why not tell people what you like? I respect the Maggie and Quad cult becaise it is like the AN or the Linn cult. If you buy into the sound on tap it can be fairly difficult to like much else. Most panel fans do not like any boxed speakers as much. Ditto horn fans. If your ear gravitates the big dynamic scale and effortless macrodynamics you are not likely going to be impressed by a panel. Bottom line though is I personally want to buy and rave about gear that males me passionate about what I am listening to. And numerous horn fans and panel fans have that same feeling. Usually the latter aren't for me but I do hear what it is they like about them. I see a lot of forum posters over the years who rave about XYZ rip me get into spiral threads and then 2 years later they moved on sometimes several times. That best thing they said was so great is now gone for some other new toy. Maggie and Quad fans are often lifers. They absolutely love the sound and little to nothing else will do. AN fans or more generally Single Ended Triode mated to High Efficiency speakers of a number of stripes generally find all else lacking. Point is start your thread. I mean if liking Beethoven Piano Sonatas isn't safe I don't know what is. What are people going to say Beethoven was an overrated bum? C'mon. And even if they do who cares? Who know such a thread may generate a poster who recommends a certain recording that you don't know about and you find it to be the crown jewel of say the Moonlight Sonata and you end up being really happy you started the thread. I have bought a number of albums based on forum discussions. Auditioned products too. Further you can educate people who may like Beethoven but not know where to start. For many classical is the most difficult to get into because they don't know where to start.
@Agitater Congrats on the new amp - a dream acquisition for many - and a real looker to boot. Speaking of aesthetics, and I know from previous reading your experience with them, is the top-end Yamaha offerings at all comparable to the Lux? Or is it just a superficial thing? Have read many times of Luxman/Harbeth magic, though currently too rich for my blood sadly. The A-S2100 is on my radar, or perhaps a Hegel which I enjoyed a very positive home demo of (notably great bass control).
Glad you like it, beautiful amp with incredible build quality! I heard the Luxman with the new 30.2 anniversary models and it sounded overly soft and smooth but I bet it was from the lower end MoFi cartridge that was being used on a new Luxman turntable. My friend does not believe in expensive cartridges for some reason!
Anyone know about the SHL5+ jumper links for the two sets of binding posts? The manual does not specify that they are included and there are mixed thoughts about the sound quality vs. other wiring options.
Your friend has installed square wheels on a Formula 1 car. By contrast, I’m feeding the L-590 with an Ortofon Cadenza Black mounted on an Origin Live Illustrious tonearm (on an Avid Diva II SP) or the superb analog output from my Lumin T1 streaming TIDAL HiFi. This is music nirvana in my main room. The Harbeth Monitor 30.1 speakers sing gloriously.
The L-590 is class A. It gets hot, but my main room is just large enough to be unaffected. I do not recommend the use of an L-590 in a small room during the summer however.
The Yamaha A-S2100 is an astonishingly good integrated amp. I’ve got one in my second room (a Den). I posted a couple of photos of the setup some time ago. I’ve got two pairs of speakers hooked up right now: the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5 A and the Totem Signature One. It’s a small-ish room lined with books, LPs, CDs, a TV, more books, artwork and a couple of comfortable chairs. I don’t often let visitors in the room because I then have a hard time getting them to leave after the music starts. It’s a great experience. Switching between the Falcons and the Totems is like playing with an embarrassment of riches when driven by the A-S2100. I had the Yamaha anchoring a second system in my main room for a while, driving a pair of Kudos Cardea Super 10 speakers. Again, superb. The A-S2100 is truly part of the integrated amp high-end world. Some time ago I also hooked up Harbeth SHL5+ speakers for a week-long audition, and that was yet another great experience. I was thinking of replacing my Monitor 30.1, but I felt at the time that the SHL5+ was just a wee bit too big for the room. The sound was remarkably good. The Luxman driving the Harbeth Monitor 30.1 is a fascinatingly - rivetingly - fine combination. Now I’m tempted to audition the SHL5+ with the L-590.
F.Y.I., Alnico magnets are not electromagnets. "Alnico is a family of iron alloys which in addition to iron are composed primarily of aluminium (Al), nickel (Ni) and cobalt (Co), hence acronym al-ni-co. They also include copper, and sometimes titanium. Alnico alloys are ferromagnetic, and are used to make permanent magnets."
I solved the Harbeth v. Audio Note debate by putting one Audio Note in the corner running off an OTO Sig and a Harbeth way out in the room running off of a Luxman. Glorious sound.
Yep. Audio Note makes great products which will sell themselves. No need for the constant schilling. That is one of the reasons I rarely start threads anymore. Like it or not it will wind up being an Audio Note thread. Richard, you’re a nice guy so stop it, please. Just go about your business, start AN threads when appropriate, even recommend the products when asked but stop blowing up other threads.
The Harbeth SHL5+ is the speaker that has presented the most life like, realistic reproduction of female vocals I have ever heard- including the anniversary model- except for the Voxativ Zeth. However the program material was definitely hand picked for the Voxativ (female opera solo) and I suspect their single drivers have limitations with music that is more complex. The Voxativs retail starting at $10,000 US. The Harbeth's are spooky good at reproducing female vocals. It's the super tweeters that give them that extra "breath of air".
No audio component will ever be universally loved. The only right & wrong is from the listener's POV. If the listener doesn't enjoy what he hears, he's not wrong and there is no "coming around". Can we *please* get back to Harbeth? Tired of this AN crap.
The Harbeth 40.2's are also scary good. They take every possible edge off of the recording and you are left with a completely natural sound. Possibly just a little too much edge is lost for many but that is the way live music sounds. Amazing.
The 40.2 are ridiculously nice. People always use female vocals as some kind of benchmark but honestly, the amount of material I have in my collection prominently featuring female vocals is quite low so I'm much more interested in male vocals. The HL5+ are pretty good at everything but the 40.2 just sounds spooky good. However, there's no denying the HL5+ is the best bargain in the line, IMHO.
