Have you ever been overwhelmed by turntables and records? How did you stop worrying?

some songs on the album sound as good as any other song but others sound pretty amateur sound-wise. Not sure if it’s intentional.

 

You'll never know until you try. Sometimes cleaning will solve this, sometimes it won't

 

1) Not sure what you are talking about. Pictures?

2) Never judge used record until it's properly cleaned. If something is 20, 30, 40 years old and hasn't been cleaned in some time, you need to bring out the big guns. That means strong two-step cleaner like AI #15 or something similar on an RCM. Watered down one-step or homebrew cleaning probably won't due the trick. Just this month I got a few jazz records from the late 60s that were barely played promos. They were dusty though, but after cleaning they sound like new albums.

A VG+ record can have some minor ticks here and there but constant surface noise, ticks, pop, etc. throughout either means it's dirty or has groove damage or wasn't a good pressing to begin with (some 70s records are abysmal quality believe it or not). Usually with used records I will do a thorough clean, then play them, then clean again if I'm not sure. If the second cleaning isn't enough to quiet down the clicks and pops and surface noise, the record is what it is and will likely go back.

90-95% of the time the first cleaning is enough. One thing you will learn quickly about buying used records online is that 100% feedback doesn't mean jack when it comes to grading. It's very easy to game the system and keep the rating high by giving partial refunds or dealing with people that are too chicken to leave negative feedback if a record was overgraded. If you are new to buying used records or haven't done it in some years, I would stick to buying used records locally. Stick to purchases that are $10 or less used and get a feel for what to expect based on visual inspection. Obviously you need to invest in a real cleaning system before you do this.

My 2 cents.

 

As with the previous poster, I have no idea what you mean by your first question. Pics would be very helpful to understand your meaning.

As for question number 2, I would say that you need to clean the record thoroughly before being able to evaluate it as well. And I would suggest that you consider buying a spin-clean machine for these sorts of records because these are super cheap, reasonably easy to use, and are still very effective. There is no need to spend the big bucks on a vacuum-cleaning machine.

 

ive tried adding a photo here but have no idea how to. basically, theres the record’s paper label, then theres a section that looks like it has music on it but it doesn't (the section im referring to), then theres the section with the music on it that the stylus reads. is that section just to prevent the stylus from touching the label?

 

Indie artists nowadays often record stuff at a mix of studios and home recording places to fit their budget. If the album was recorded in more than one session in different places, that is why it sounds like that. Not uncommon.

 

You mean the deadwax? That is where there is no music. Yes, you don't want your stylus skating across the label. That would be bad, especially if it's a fragile and expensive cart. If you look at the deadwax, there are letters and numbers there - you can glean all sorts of info from that - lacquer cutter, pressing plant, stamper number, etc. It's the kind of stuff people nerd out on. Also informative when knowing what pressings to avoid because they're done at a low end plant or mastered haphazardly.

 

The lead-out grove of the record is designed to do one of two things. Either it:
1) Pulls the tonearm into a position where the auto-return or auto shut-off mechanism on a semi-automatic turntable gets triggered, or it:
2) Provides a circular groove to trap your stylus at the end of the record (for manual TTs) so that it doesn't end-up skating across the label at the end of each side of a record.

 

I don't think that anyone outside of our hobby cares. Maybe today, more people are becoming aware of vinyl, but most younger people who would be in my office really thought that me playing vinyl was more of something that a cave man might do.

Not sometimes, always!

Listen to what you just said, "some records sound so bad compared to others".

Think about it, if some records sound good, than it stands to reason that all of them should sound equally good, but, some don't.

You gear has not changed, so it must be the record. BTW, it IS the record, see trickness's quote above.

True, but a lot of CD's suck too.

So you have set up your system. At the level that you are at, it is sounding as good as it might be for the investment that you have in your gear.

In the end...

 

I understand where you are coming from...

 

being overwhelmed by turntables and records is why after 40 years I got out of the vinyl game. it was just too much. my apartment is a lot less cluttered now and i don't miss cleaning and getting up to flip over records all the time... to be fair i spent a lot of $ getting my set-up to where digital music was appealing to me... but now that i'm there i'm not looking back. someone would have to die and leave me a huge collection and really nice turntable in order for me to get back in the game. don't see that happening.

 

Well, I just happened to listen to this album yesterday, a Dutch reissue from 1976, and it sounds like ****, so praise yourself lucky that you at least got some bass!
So relax, some (in fact more than you would like) records sound like crap, no matter the equipment! I make selections, the good ones, I will listen to, the crap ones go back into storage (or will be sold on). Or you could get a small equalizer like the schiit loki.

 

One thing I've experienced at the beginning of my vinyl adventures: if you are listening on a trebly, analytical system (especially headphones), every minor problem with IGD or sibilence will be blown out if proportion. These days I am listening on somewhat fuller sounding equipment (eg Harbeth), and then what once seemed problematic records, turn out to be pretty listenable. The problems are still there if you listen for them, but you don't get smacked in the face with minor cases of IGD or sibilence.

 

Vinyl is not for everyone.

 

interesting. i've been listening to records using m40x headphones due to necessity. not sure how trebly/analytical those headphones are compared to others.

 

I am not familiar with your headphones, but yes that could be something to look into.

Were you planning to also get a regular speakers based system? That may make the whole record playing thing more relaxing for you, I guess.

 

maybe in a few years if i'm still around, lol. at the moment i would not be able to listen at the volume level i like with regular speakers. anyway, i have some open back headphones which would definitely warm up the music. i don't mind the sound of the m40x + records but i'm worried that i have things set up incorrectly.

 

“Reality is for those who can’t handle drugs.”
- Anonymous

To the OP - you are not wrong to think there is a lot to learn with respect to the proper set up of a turntable, but just accept that it is a new skill for you to learn and enjoy the ride. Whatever you do, DO NOT let it interfere with your enjoyment of music (I’ve been there, and it’s not fun). Remember this is just a hobby, the point of which is to give you pleasure - not anxiety. Just start slow and work your way up, it’s not rocket surgery - you’ll get the hang of it sooner than you think.

Enjoy!

 

Records are kind of a pain in the butt. That’s why CDs and digital and streaming supplanted them for the most part, with the notable exception of people like us.

That said, I always had nostalgia for my records, which I’d given up for dead 30 years prior for cassettes and then CDs. After I heard a demo at a local dealer of a Clearaudio Concept about 5 years ago I dove back building a record collection and a system for playing them.

The Concept (with the MC cartridge) was pretty solid and a good entry point to get into “audiophile” level vinyl playback, but it was hardly the last word in sound or ease of use. I definitely had my my fair share of frustrations with that rig.

Then I got a Technics SL-1200G and it was a revelation. It is so incredibly easy to setup, with rock-solid speed and pitch, all the adjustments one could ever need – and it’s incredibly easy to use. Paired with either my relatively inexpensive KAB Ortofon Pro S 40 or the priceier Benz Micro Wood SL, the ‘table gets the most of every record. Adding the KAB fluid damping took it up another substantial notch.

In my opinion, the likes of the Technics SL-1200G and its sibling the SL-1200GR (with a cartridge of sufficient quality, including an advanced stylus shape) are the cure for frustration and stress over turntable setup and vinyl playback. On a lesser budget, I’d suggest the Pioneer PLX-1000.

Finally, the condition and quality of the records themselves is obviously the key to getting great sound from vinyl playback whatever the turntable. This forum is a valuable resource for that kind of thing, of course.

 

I would add that a newbie should not let the hand wringing crazies make them afraid of turntable setup. It's just not really that complicated! Even the notorious VPI unipivots that everyone says is finicky, it not a big deal (it just has one extra plane to align). Get a small digital scale (about $20 or less on Amazon) and a 3x5 card. You can print a protractor from Vinylengine, and get comfortable with making small changes. Unless you have one of the very delicate cartridges with the cantilever hanging out the front, you aren't likely to destroy anything. Keep a stash of a few records that you can test basic alignment on. Many carts prefer something that may be off a bit from ideal alignment anyway, we all have records of different thicknesses so VTA is never perfect anyway. And (important!) your first thought is to go light on tracking "to be safer" but you are much more likely to damage a record by being too light than too heavy. I always start at 1.75g fro MM and 2.0 for most MC and have never had an issue.

OK standard rant over!

 

thank you. i printed a protractor from Audio Technica’s website and I lined up the cartridge in one spot but for the second group of lines on the protractor, i lined up the cartridge again but had to rotate the platter to line it up and am not sure if that’s even the correct way to do it. YouTube vids dont explain how much to rotate the platter. Also, regarding VTA, i tried stacking mats but something seemed off about the sound when i did that (thumping kind of), so im just using one mat which makes the cart lean down instead of being level. Also, i got a vtf scale and it currently says im at 1.98 g. when i checked it a few days ago it said 2.0. dont know whats going on there. oh well.

 

If you worry about 0.02 grams, well that says it all

 

I have just got over a period like this. The sibilance thing drove me nuts.. It will pass. Remember records are not a perfect format and will show issues like sibilance, IGD etc..

Just read you have a AT95e, it's ok for the price but it's very basic and will give you sibilance and IGD even if you have aligned it perfectly, it's just not a perfect tracker. I would recommend a micro line stylus. You will notice a big difference.

 

If you change the mats, the VTF will change slightly. I'm not big on a lot of the exotic mats. I have used the Music Hall cork on my old Rega, but only because I didn't like the glass platter. I never used one on my Scout, Perspex, or Oracle. My 1200 and SL-M2 just get the stock Technics mats.

You should be able to adjust the VTA with the dial on the base of the tonearm. Not sure how simple it is on the Pioneer, but on the 1200 its crazy easy. You can also change it by ear as it's playing, but you have to be VERY steady and light handed. I have several cartridges that prefer to be very slightly "tail-down". This is a possibility if you are getting more noise than normal. The 2MBlack is very fussy in this way and that's why I only really use it on the 1200 where its easy to tweak it.

Using a protractor, you just want to square the body up on the grid at both locations. The two locations make sure that the platter is rotated to the right location. It is possible to get it square at almost any overhang at one spot, but with two it should be good. Start with the screws centered in the slots of the head shell.

I have no idea if the Pioneer arm shares the physical dimensions of the 1200, but if so, then get a Technics overhang gauge. Makes it very simple to get very, very close and you can use to protractor to check or fine tune it is necessary. I generally find that the gauge is spot on if used correctly.

 

With a two point protractor, you have to rotate the platter to use the second null point.

With an arc protractor, once you figure out the correct position, you tape it down and DO NOT move the platter, only the arm.

See these links:

Two point:



Arc:

Setup a Turntable to Record to a Computer Part 2



Re: your scale - 1.98 vs. 2g is nothing to worry about. These scales are quite sensitive. If you don't place the needle exactly in the center of the scale plate, you might get a different reading. Likewise, different positions on the platter might give you a slightly different reading. As long as you are quite close, which are, nothing to worry.