Help me choose my next preamp - budget $3K --- ish

Background:

• Currently own a Parasound P5 preamp driving a Parasound A21 amp, which drives Yamaha NS-2000 speakers.
  
• Almost bought a Parasound JC2 BP when they were on sale last year for $3495. The JC2 is still in the running.
• Note that I may be also replacing my A21 amp eventually if I go for a non-Parasound preamp.

Requirement:

• Want to stay in the $3K range (or less). A little over won't be a deal breaker.
• Does not need digital inputs or DAC on the preamp, analog only is desired.
• True balanced inputs / outputs are a bonus but not a requirement.
• Tube or Solid State, OK with either - but prefer at least 5 inputs.
• Vintage is OK, understand the trade offs and OK with doing some restore work if needed over time.
  
• **Want the preamp to have a HT bypass feature** -- with unity gain on the preamp and where the volume is controlled by the source or AVR in this case. (Read this again if you were about to recommend something!)

These days, there are many good preamps with HT bypass, and many manufacturer's recognize that many 2-channel music lovers also want good surround sound on the same set of main speakers!

What am I hoping to accomplish, or why am I upgrading?

• First, realize the current P5 / A21 combo sounds darned good with NS-2000's and my (many) TT's / phono preamps.
  
• So why upgrade? Because I can! Seriously - want to try something different, squeeze more SQ out of my already enjoyable vinyl playback. I like trying new things, it's fun!
  
• Sound profile I am seeking - I hate labels, for example "I am after a "warm" sound", or "neutral" sound etc. I am after "good" sound and see what appeals to me most with my equipment.
  
• My speakers are notorious for "telling the truth" and being unkind to poor source, so want to see what they like the most and how they stack up to what I already have.

Here are some of the preamps I considered or are on the short list:

• Conrad Johnson Premier 16LS or 17LS - after research I am very impressed with these preamps. One board member, Davey, owns the 17LS and likes it a lot. Only rub with this option --- they can be tough to find for sale. There is an 18LS solid state model too that is interesting.
  
• Accuphase C-2120 or C-2410/20 - I could also "settle" for the C-2110 or C-2400 to save a few bucks - they are the generation before the 2x20. The 2420 will most likely run well north of $3K for a good one, but the 2410 is in range. These Accuphase pre's also have the option of adding DAC and phono pre cards. It's hard to deny the quality of Accuphase and they have a strong following. I have been attracted to many Accuphase components for a while. (I know about the service challenges and how they don't publish service manuals / specs).
  
• Parasound JC2 BP - already mentioned, at $4495 new rather steep - was at $3495 last year for a while. The advantage here is synergy with my A21.
  
• Conrad Johnson ET3 or ET5 - the ET5 is higher dollar than most choices mentioned so far due to it being a newer unit. Mixed reviews of the ET3, and in both cases it seems the Premier owners think the Premier line is the more "musical" choice. There is also an "SE" version with Teflon.
  
• Yamaha C-2x - yes, you are correct, no HT bypass --- but paired with the venerable B-2 VFET power amp, which has TWO inputs, you could accomplish the HT bypass by putting the preamp in Input 1, the AVR in Input 2....... of course it comes with the minor additional hassle of pushing the "Input" button on the amp when changing source. The reason this option exists, besides the vintage Yamaha reputation, is because I have NS-2000 speakers from the same early-80's timeframe. But the VFET is one of those high risk, unobtanium things.... and the B-2x amp only has one input....

Open to other ideas.... just offering something to get the discussion started. Or if you own, have compared or have any insight on what I've already mentioned please share!

 

Atoll is a company to kee an eye on. Moon also.

 

CODA products have always fascinated me, and they are well reviewed.

Their current offering for the CP I believe lists for about $3500.

CODA Products

 

Interesting read, I've heard the name before of course and seen a couple products mentioned, but never realized there were so many choices and product lines.

Thanks for the info......

 

Well you can rule-out vintage since vintage preamps contain no HT bypasses. Although it might be possible to have one modified to add this feature, if you are willing to go that route. I'm assuming that you also require a phono section inside of this preamp based upon your screen name.

 

I was in (kind of) the same boat as you. I still have an A21 amp—love it. Originally purchased a Parasound P5 to go with it, thinking it be fine—boy was I wrong. The P5 left a lot to be desired sound wise (although nicely built and good on features).

I went with a Mac preamp and tonal bliss magically returned to my B&Ws. You might be able to get a used C47 near $3k from AudioClassics:

Audio Classics - C47

 

Guess that depends on ones definition of "vintage" --- plus, note the C-2x option above -- if I paired it with a B-2 VFET power amp, the B-2 has two inputs, which is another way to get HT bypass (preamp out in one input, AVR in the other)..... Then there are 90's Mark Levinson pre's with bypass (380S, 380SL, more) if you consider the 90's vintage ....

Then there are some other 70's and 80's vintage preamps that have a "Ext In" or "Pre In" that could double as that function.

But for the most part you are correct, HT bypass does put a damper on a large part of the preamp population... trust me I waffle on this, but as much as I watch movies, and only have room for one set of mains....

Actually just the opposite, I have a plethora of external phono preamps! THere are a number of pre's with good phono sections -- but coming full circle many of those are vintage --- for example the phono section on Yamaha's C-2a, and C-2x mentioned are good, the Sony Esprit series had some good phono sections, as did many of the 80's Accuphase like C-200 series, C-280 / 290... but for the most part I go exclusively external phono preamp here....

 

You know, I should have put a couple of Macs on my short list, been eyeing those up for a while!!! Good call...

I am looking at the back of the C47 --- does it have an Ext / Pre In or any sort of HT bypass type functionality? I don't recall spending a lot of time researching that one.... I could go look closer too, but thought I'd ask. Some pre's have the feature, but it's configured internally and not labeled on the back of the pre (like the Levinson 380SL - you can rename an input with the SSP prefix and it becomes bypass with unity gain).

BTW, we've exchanged on this topic over a year ago when I was looking to buy the A21 and P5 --- in the end we think alike (again) --- the P5 is good, but I am craving for the next rung of the ladder....

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Yes I believe the C47 has HT Bypass. You can access a brochure about its features via the link I provided.

 

I'm not sure if it has an HT bypass, but if I were in the market for a new line-level preamp I would be looking very hard at the PS Audio BHK preamp. It's retail price is way above your price point. But these can be found discounted very substantially if you know where to look.

 

Begs the question though --- as an Parasound A21 owner, why didn't you opt for the Parasound JC2 or JC2 BP instead of the Mac 47? They are both $4500 new and $3000 Used or B Stock --- with the JC2 actually on sale for $3495 for an extended period?

Just curious, and if you considered it?

There were many times I almost purchased the JC2 BP for $3500 new late last year........ I am sure Tim at AA got tired of me waffling on it......

 

That's why I put these threads up --- I will go take a look. PS Audio name speaks for itself...... thanks for the rec.....

 

After hearing the P5, I wasn’t willing to trust a Parasound preamp again (no matter the price-point). I know that may not be entirely logical, but it’s the way I felt.

 

Fair enough........... thought crossed my mind more than once........ I never thought of the P5 as awful, but probably like you it's not a standout........

 

How about a hand-built Don Sachs?:

custom line stage

A Sach for your rack.

 

Ayre K-5xeMP brand new for $2,995. They still build these. This is what I did when I was looking in the same price point a few months ago. I am really enjoying mine. It seems to fit your requirements well except for the number of inputs. It has unity gain HT bypass, but I have never used that feature so I can't offer comments. You could spend a little less and buy used, but I went new because you get the factory warranty and I prefer new when possible.

Superphonica | Ayre K-5xe

 

I'm going to toss this out only because I'm pretty sure it checks every box on your list expect the XLRs. PrimaLuna Prologue or Dialogue. I haven't heard them, but they've caught my eye and I've been curious about them. Something to consider.

I'll be curious to see what you end up with, and if you get to demo any during the hunt!

 

I also own a CJ 17LS. I like mine a lot. You can find the Series 1 used every now and then for about 2k bucks.
Don't need to spend crazy money on accessories for it either.
Get a good matching quad NOS JAN Philips 6922 with low noise and microphonics, a good Power Cable like Shunyata Venom and you're in business.
Series 2 is harder to find and more money, but has upgraded power supply and CJ teflon capacitors.

PrimaLuna Dialogue is also intriguing.

 

I meant to ask you yesterday - did you end up keeping the A21?

 

I am going to look closer at these - thanks for the rec - of course I have seen / heard of them but have never delved into the specs...... I will check back with any questions!

These can be tough to find used, if one was available I might already own it...... there was one a few weeks ago in Cali but seller wouldn't ship.

Did you ever consider the 18LS Solid State one, or are you in it for the tubes?

 

Just checking - when I search on these, I come up with a K-5xe and K-5xeMP (with the MP superscripted). Same unit?

 

Yes, I find no fault with the A21. It’s a wonderful amp!

 

I have been looking at this since I replied above - one thing that caught my eye was the Dialogue (the higher end one) has a 93db S/N where the Prologue has 109 Db S/N.

Plus the Dialogue is 53lbs --- that's one serious piece of gear. I was impressed by some of the side by sides of other preamps.

This is an interesting option.

 

I'm a tube guy. Never considered the 18LS or any other solid state preamp.
For critical music listening, I prefer valves. I've owned a bunch of solid state receivers, integrated amps in the past, Marantz, Pioneer, NAD, Musical Fidelity...all of them sound more or less grainy. To my lousy ears, valves sound the most transparent. Weather it tells the truth is another thing...

 

'MP' was the latest upgrade. If you buy new you receive a MP version. I believe there is a Stereophile article that explains what the upgrade was in detail. Also, they just use that site I linked for orders, but it is built new and shipped direct from Ayre.