Help me choose my next preamp - budget $3K --- ish

Totally agree with them being an interesting option. I don't think my budget is ready to commit to all tube separates, but I keep thinking what if I got a PrimaLuna pre and a less expensive (likely solidstate) amp to hold me over for a few months/years? But there are also so many good integrated option on the market now, not sure which way I'll go yet. But with your budget you're really entering the world of no wrong choices, just preferences. Have fun on the search!

 

I would have the same thoughts - of course the tube purists will strongly advise that if one is going to get a tube preamp that a tube amp is needed to fully appreciate the all tube signal path. (obviously).

I wonder how many are running something like the PrimaLuna preamp, or any other tube preamp, with a SS amp as a full time setup?

Agreed to on the Integrated Tube route too --- for instance the Line Magnetic 1501A with 100watt per channel AND an Ext Pre In jack to boot....... that one caught my eye too.

Of course the thread already has me adding things, rethinking my options a bit.

 

I have always liked the sound of a Tube Pre into a SS Amp. I ran a Vintage Bogen into a PS Audio GCA for a year or so and loved it.

I would really like to Demo the new Stellar Pre and Stellar Mono Amps from PS Audio. I really like their gear.

 

I have been reading a little on these.... they get quite the buzz over on Audiogon.....

This is an interesting option too.

EDIT: Just saw this on his website though:

Note: one pair of XLR inputs using excellent Cinemag line transformers for the conversion is always an option, but I cannot do XLR outputs, so please don’t ask. Also, I no longer wish to build preamps with HT switches, so please don’t ask for that either.

Puts a damper on this option a bit, without a HT bypass it makes it a tougher integration since I only have room for one set of speakers.

Other than that I a really impressed with his products from reading, the components he uses, the reviews / testimonials.

 

I would love to hear more from Primaluna Dialogue Premium and / or Rogue RP-5 or RP-7 owners.... One big question I have is how many using tube preamps are running solid state amps?

I have semi-difficult to drive NS-2000's (89db, 6 ohm, 250W max) --- and more than their ability to drive, they notoriously like "good watts" and are unkind to poor source. I do have some 102db, 8 ohm Klipsch speakers, but I LOVE my NS-2000's.

I have also kicked around the Line Magnetics integrated 1501i at 100W per channel, but I wonder about the ultimate quality of those 100W in an integrated package.

There is a lot of information on the Dialogue and Primaluna products, but surprisingly little on the Rogue RP5 / 7 in comparison. In fact I got a PM from someone who is trying to SELL his RP-5.......

 

I own the Dialogue Premium paired with my CJ 2550SE solid state amp. It is a killer combo. I moved from a CJ ET3 to the Dialogue a couple of years ago and couldn't be happier. The CJ ET3 is a nice sounding hybrid pre-amp but that thing chewed up tubes. Prior to the ET3 I had a CJ LS18 solid state pre-amp. That was one serious pre-amp even though it was solid state.

 

You should definitely consider an RP-5 or RP-7. The RP-5 is around your price point new with warranty. The RP-7 will be more, but it has balanced ins and outs if that's a big deal for you. I have heard both and both are amazing sounding units. I have used the RP-5 to drive both tube and SS amps, as well as the Rogue Audio hybrid amps. In fact, all of the Rogue Audio tube preamps can drive SS amps very well. I have sold an RP-5 to a fellow who had the Parasound Halo preamp and power amp. He used the Rogue Audio tube preamp for a while with his Parasound SS power amp and then bought the Stereo 100 tube amp for an all tube, all Rogue amplification set. I use a Rogue tube preamp at home with a SS power amp. I have done that for years with various models in the mix. I'll occasionally swap in a tube amp, but for the most part, I can't be bothered with that as it sounds really good and runs cool as it is. I have both analog and digital sources as I use my Hi-Fi system for both stereo record playback and for movie sound.
-Bill

 

You can find a used Zesto Leto 1.0 for around the $3000 mark (they are currently on the 1.5 version now). It is a superb sounding tube preamp and checks off all your requirements - it has balanced outputs, HT/Cinema Bypass, and has 5 inputs. Here are some pictures and a review link as well. I can check if my Zesto dealer has any trade-ins of this as well if you want to PM me.

Stereophile Link: Zesto Audio Leto line preamplifier

 

If you don't mind used, this has all the features & a good price.

Echo Audio | Rogue Audio RP-5

 

You can nab a Modwright LS-100 with phono for under that amount. ModWright LS-100 tube preamp with remote and phono, as new, save $2K | Tube | Santa Barbara, California 93101 | Audiogon

I replaced a CJ LS17 and an external phono stage with this preamp. Still pretty happy with the preamp. If you go CJ, get a newer version 2.

 

Thanks. That's quite the impressive lineup of preamps you've tried --- sounds like you've had a chance to go through the paces of different CJ products. They make good stuff, no question, and why they are still on my short list!

I just went out and did some reading on that CJ 2550SE, sounds like a dream SS power amp, and one I could see supplanting my A21 some day.... there are just so many nice amps out there these days!

I have spent a lot of time reading about the ET-3, ET-5, the ET-3SE (with, without the phono stage), the 18LS and more. With only one tube the Et-3 is a clear hybrid --- I was surprised to see that adding the phono stage to it adds another THREE tubes for a total of four! Interesting. I am not sure the ET-3 is what I am after the more I read about it.... thanks for your views and especially a comparison.

Why did you move on from the 18LS? Did you like the 18LS more than the ET-3? I have a beat on one (18LS), but it's hard finding testimonials on it--- and of course you get a lot of folks who say the 16LS and 17LS tube versions are at a whole 'nother level! Have you ever had a chance to hear the 16 or 17LS??

I know, lots of questions!

 

Thanks! Will take a closer look at this one!

CJ 17SL -- are you referring to the Teflon upgrade when you say "version 2"? If so, then yes, I would prefer it.... but it just makes these even that much harder to find! The only thing rarer than a 17LS for sale is the 17LS2!! "-)

I didn't follow your last couple sentences completely --- are you saying you LS-100 now, and it replaced a CJ 17LS? How long did you own the 17LS, and what drove you to replace it?

 

I just bought Rogue Audio RP-5 and should get it by next week! It is almost in your price range and has good solution for HT bypass - it bypasses when it is OFF, so you will not wear down your tubes while watching TV and movies! Apparently it's build in Phono section is also first rate.

 

I had the 18LS for quite a while and wanted to try something else. I wanted to move a tube pre and at the time I was looking the 17LS were difficult to come by used (and still are). Spearit Audio (who is out of business now) made me a deal I couldn't refuse on the ET3 with a low gain phono stage.

After some time I sent the ET3 to CJ to have them upgrade just the phono stage to SE. It was really sounding great but the tube issue bothered me. CJ made changes to their recent designs that was just not healthy for tubes, at least in that hybrid configuration. Not that they don't make great products, they do and I wouldn't hesitate to buy their products in the future. Tough call on which I liked better between 18Ls and the ET3, different sounding for sure.

When I decided to move on from the ET3 I found that the Prima Luna and Manley were just what I was looking for. I love being able to roll tubes in both.

 

Great info.... always appreciated when one is willing to share what they liked better by direct comparison --- sign of a true USER!!!

Thanks much for taking the time.... I can't promise I won't have other questions! Nice to see others with the same Addiction as me too!!

 

You are more than welcome. Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions. I will say I think my 2550SE is the last SS amp I will ever purchase, it is that good. And, I owned a Bryston 4BSST, that was one great amp, solid workhorse the 15 years I owned it. That may be one to look for used.

 

Which model pre and power amps if you don't mind me asking? I looked at your profile, but the amps say various, and plus not everyone keeps their profiles current (I know I don't --- I am bad about updating it).

Do you know if Rogue transfer warranties to new owners if bought used? I looked on their website, combed the FAQ, etc and saw no mention. Not everyone does, and just curious their policy if you know?

Thanks for your thoughts Bill!

 

You can call them. Generally Nick or Mark will answer and answer anything.

 

That's too much work LOL. Plus it's Saturday, and it's so much easier to ask!!!

Just kidding, I may do that before it's said and done.

 

I owned an CJ 17LS for nearly 10 years. Issue #1 are finding tubes that don't make noise in this unit. I had a very hard time finding tubes that would remain quiet.

Yes the Teflon unit it not easy to find and CJ charges $2K to do the upgrade...another reason I no longer wanted a CJ, their repair fees are absurd as well.

I also wanted to consolidate and went with a Preamp that had a tube phono stage. I think the LS-100 is a better sounding preamp...maybe not as quiet but certainly has more depth and I prefer it to the CJ. I also love the fact that by changing tubes in the Phono stage, you increase or decrease the phono gain. It is a tube rollers dream preamp. However I got mine for $2200 with $400 worth of barely used tubes...

 

Spectral is another company you should check out. I have their DMC-6 preamp and love it. Some of their later models included balanced inputs and outputs.

Scott

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. That's the first I have heard or read that about the noisy tube matching --- what tubes did you settle on that were quiet? Any to avoid?

I actually was looking at the fact this uses EC88's / 6922's as a plus since I have a phono preamp that uses them too -- makes buying / sharing tubes easier! But if there aren't many options that is not a plus.

 

I am an exception to the idea of having a user profile updated being useful, as I have had so much gear that if I listed just what I had now or what would fit, it would leave out so much more. Because I have used just about every Rouge Audio product (I have been a dealer for many years), it also doesn't help to list what I am using at any one moment as it doesn't mean that it's the best that I have used. I typically use the least expensive options these days as I don't spend as much time at home with that system. I do have more time at my shop with an array of other options though, and some of that is way nicer than what I could afford for myself. Presently, I am using a discontinued model from Rogue as a preamp. It's a Perseus Magnum. Before that, I used the even more affordable Metis Magnum. I am currently using a SAE power amp, the model of which I can't recall, but I completely restored it. It isn't much to look at but is deceptively simple and very clean sounding. I have some other more esoteric stuff in storage... I have also restored some other gear which I could use and really wanted to keep as it's gorgeous and has some sentimental value from my earlier days, but I can't keep everything.

Rogue does not transfer warranties. Most companies do not and it is a very stupid idea for any mfr to do so. It has obvious advantages for people who never intend to actually support the company, but who can take advantage of their generosity at any sign of trouble. That's way lop-sided and unfair. I had to deal with Bryston's policy regarding that for years and it was both a good marketing tool and a liability for the company. Basically it was one item that drove up their pricing to a level that it became pretty much unsellable, despite the hype over their warranty. Warranties are not free. The price get reflected in the cost of the product and over the course of years, that cost grows into new products as it is cumulative. Basically, you can get better products or products that are just as good for less or equal amounts which do not have transferable warranties. No product is immune to failure regardless of any warranty. It's all part of the cost of the product and it's a hassle if it's not serviced locally.
-Bill

 

Thanks Bill.

Warranties - yeah, totally get it --- this is something that every manufacturer has their own take / policy, and the reasons are all valid to them! You have to ask because everyone treats it differently. Rogue should consider putting warranty info on their site, or make it more visible, because if it is there I couldn't find it.

Rogue RP5/7 is on my short list ------- but at this point so are a few more. This thread has brought a couple into view also that I wasn't considering before.

 

A used rogue RP5 for tube , Moon Audio for solid state.