Help with first integ. amp - Primaluna v. Rogue v. Line Magnetic v. McIntosh v. Naim

Are you going to audition something else, or are you good?

 

I'd like to audition the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP as well. It has features such as HT bypass, sub outputs, headphone amps that I can see as benefits. It is also less expensive than the LM 805ia as well.

 

You might take up Raven Audio on their 45 day in-home trial period with their new Nighthawk Mk3. I've yet to read anything negative about any of their amps. The new one has a built-in high pass filter for sub integration, which is a very smart feature IMO.

Nighthawk MK3 Integrated Amplifier - Raven Audio

 

Interesting...

The 508iA might be the sweet spot power wise with your speakers. The PL will give you some more power, but I don't think that you will need it. Don't worry about features like a HT bypass and sub out. I'm not saying that they are not nice features to have, but you an get around them, as I have explained. If you listen a lot with headphones, then a built-in headphone amp might be a useful feature for you. If not, don't sweat it.

When you go for an amp like this, you are paying for the amp, nothing else. All the money is going into the build of the amp, which is what you want.

The main thing that the 508 will bring you over the 518 or 845 is volume and dynamics. What you might consider, is seeing if the dealer has either a 508 or an 845. My 518 has huge bass and very natural sound. It is $4,500, so it is a bit less expensive than the 508 and it has half the power.

It would be very interesting to see how you would find the performance of the other amp. It may be even "smoother", less dynamic and maybe be a bit under powered at 22-Watts, then again, maybe not.

Since I have not heard the 508, I could not comment. But I have the feeling that you would get some more of that SET goodness with the 518 or 845. If it does hae enough power, then it may be the perfect SET amp for you.

Keep in mind, that most class "A" SET designs are usually no more than the 8-Watts that a typical 300B amp is rated at, so these other LM amps are powerful SET amps. The main reason for the 508 is for people who have more inefficient speakers and need a really powerful SET.

The PL would be a good amp for you, but it will not match the Sound of a SET.

But, one thing to keep in mind is the quality of the source. By that, I do not mean listening to higher resolution digital files. These amps are less about higher resolution than they are about the source recording and mastering. This is so important, because a quality amp like the 508 or one of the other SET's can not really shine, without that extra special quality source material.

Once you step down a few notches, than a good class A/B amp will sound about the same quality as the SET. In this case, it is not a case of both of those amps being nearly alike sound wise, it is a case of lowering the quality of the source material so both amps sound the same. This is important, because if you are not keeping this in mind, then you might easily find yourself thinking that you can't tell very much difference between the class "A/B" amp and the SET amp.

In saying this, I don't believe that there is any shame in a the sound of a class A/B amp. In fact, the smaller LM 211iA is a nice sounding class A/B amp and is even less money.

I wonder if @GoldprintAudio could weigh in on this?

There was a thread last year comparing the 518 and the 218. Not so much about the comparison but, one member is quoted saying...

 

GHA are top! Make sure you get a t-shirt (I think they're cool.)

 

They really are top notch! I'm glad that I somehow stumbled on them as I was looking up a place to audition the Line Magnetic. Erik is a standup guy and the shop was a great place to spend some time (even if it was dangerous for my wallet).

 

Heard the Primaluna extensively, a very nice sounding amplifier but IMHO lacks excitement and dynamics. The Line Magnetic (possibly because of the speakers and room) sounded rolled off yet with exaggerated midbass that made it non competitive in terms f transparency and detail.
The Mac is nice but it still does not possess the 3D soundstage and natural sound that a fine tube amplifier can give you. Never heard the Naim amp but they are a smooth solid state amp by all reports.
I tried to like the Pharaoh but it just did not fit the sound I was after- very thick and slightly edgy at the same time yet with tons of "balls" for an amplifier.
I've owned the Cronus Magnum II for going on two years and it sounded OK out of the box, a bit metallic in the treble and not very transparent. But swap in ~ $400 worth of decent NOS 12Au7s and 12AX7s (recipe available) and it transforms into a class A sound with punch, dynamics, huge 3D sound stage and what I call a sweet, refined "neutrality" to the sound.
I frequently attend and continue to attend many audio shows and dealers and few systems give me the sound that the CM II is capable of regardless of price. They may sound bigger, flashier and bolder but never as nice overall. Not much to look at but man it is a winner in the sound quality department. With the 100 WPC KT120 power it can drive most speakers with ease.

 

Over 30% higher than their competitors for the identical item and I was shopping availability, not price. My inquiry was answered by somebody named Halpern, I believe. My apologies if I didn't get the name correct. I won't be ripped off by these people. I fully realize that they can charge anything they want for their goods, but I also fully realize that I don't have to do business with them and I can publicly complain about them if I wish.

 

I don't understand "competitors for the identical item". There are no competitors for the items they sell, as they're the distributors. Unless you're talking about trying to get the same things through grey markets?

 

"There are no competitors for the items they sell, as they're the distributors".

Well, you could've fooled the hell out of me!!!!

In plain English:

I was in the market for a particular item, so I performed a Google search. I e-mailed four of the listings that came up in this search asking three simple questions:

Do you have this item in stock for immediate shipping?
If not, how long will it take to order one"
What is your asking price?

Two of the responders had the item in stock, while the other two replied that it would take approximately two weeks to get one.
Three of these quoted $995, while Tone Imports quoted $1350!

I'm quite sure that Tone couldn't care less, but I'll never consider them again. I'm not a "price buyer", but Tone Imports is a bit too rich for my blood

 

What brand was the item in question? @Rolltide question pertains to how TI is supposed to have exclusive distribution rights for certain brands and it is possible that you obtained said item via unauthorized dealers (AKA grey market).

You could be right that the price is higher at TI but knowing the brand will help us know whether that is the case.

 

apples and oranges? you emailed the distributor and.....who? I can't imagine Tone Imports would find it advantageous to undercut their dealer network.

 

Auditorium 23. If Tone Imports quoted me a higher price and didn't want to appear to "undercut" their dealer network it would have helped all concerned if they just directed me to contact one of their dealers instead of responding that they had the item and could ship it right away.

The dealers that I contacted all insisted that they were not unauthorized or "grey market" dealers. I will not name them for fear of them possibly suffering retribution from the "exclusive" distributor.

 

But Tone Imports doesn’t sell direct. They are the distributor. I don’t understand how/why they would quote a price different from their dealer network.

 

So after 2 nights with the Line Magnetic 805ia, I have come away very impressed. The speakers just sing and have reacted very well to this heavy, heavy (42kg) addition to the system. Very musical and full of vibrance/life - especially noticeable for vocal heavy music or jazz (sax, piano, symbols). Clarity has not been lost and the notes are full rather than feeling any semblance of thin. Plenty of power to drive my speaker setup as well. Leaves nothing to be desired, really. Price is something that I have to consider but it is not too far off the Primaluna pricing if I get the HP.

I'm going to test the Primaluna HP at home and compare it to the 805ia. I'll make a choice after that.

In the meantime, I got a PS Audio Directstream Junior to use as a DAC and streamer going forward. Can't wait to hear it!

 

Thanks again for the bugle boy tip for my CMII, Avanti!

Exactly what is your tube setup in your CMII you mentioned above? Thanks!

 

here you go- (after many, many swaps and a full drawer of tubes to prove it !!!)
Power Tubes- the KT120s win.
Front row- 12AX7 amperex bugle boys, holland made, long plated d-getter from the 50's. you can get better value if you purchase re-branded amperex tubes. see brent jesse's web site.
Middle tube- 12AU7 amperex bugle boy holland, screened for low noise. again, re-branded amperex tubes sound just as good and cost much less. low noise screening (adds 10 bucks) is important for this tube.
Back row- 12AU7 RCA 5963 black plates, premium industrial grade two mica.

 

No need to get rude. I've dealt with Jonathan on many occasions and never once did I purchase or have the ability to purchase anything from him. He does provide information about the products he distributes, but will recommend you to the nearest dealer in his network (which is a very tight network that is pretty good about keeping prices equal).

 

+1 for GHA. Awesome store and people, and a cool place to hang for a while. Really like the whole Gig Harbor area.

 

This was my experience as well - just with the older 1.6's, and the first iteration of the PrimaLuna.

 

Not to get the thread off topic, but on CMII tube rolling--here's my recipe--not in any way suggesting this meets or surpasses with avanti1960 has done with his, but a couple other options to consider (and a massive shout out to the 5963 black plates). I'm yet to encounter anyone who recommends replacing the KT120s:

Middle tube 12AU7: NOS Mullard CV 4003.

Back row 12AU7: RCA 5963 back plates. I love these tubes--they were as smooth as some other NOS tubes I tried, but these significantly opened up the sound stage.

Front 12AX7s: GE long plate/grey plate from Brent Jesse. I had previously put some 6N2P-EVs in the 12AX7 slot using adapters--they are great for the price--but I am more comfortable having real 12AX7s in there. I love the 6N2P-EV though. I built an 834P clone phono amp modified to use the 6N2P-EV and it sounds incredibly sweet. Worth a shot for tubes+adapters at less than $20 a pair.

 

After I bought it , I put in old Tele ECC83s and Mullard ECC82s with then new Svetlana Winged C KT88s.
After 12 years ish, they're still in there.
I bought some new Golden Lion Kt88s about 6 years ago, still in their boxes!
Most reliable valve amp I have ever known.

 

If you have the opportunity try a primare. The I35 in particular

 

I now have the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP in hand now and am auditioning it. It is still brand new and will likely need some time but I'm liking what I am hearing so far! Definitely quite a bit lighter than the 805ia and I am already enjoying the additional features such as the headphone output, sub out, and HT bypass.

 

It definitely sounds better at 10 hours than cold out of the box. Give it 100 hours and it's pretty amazing.